A&H

Leeds vs S'ton

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This was going to be my question, I take it, current protocol means he can’t?

No it definitely can't, which is a shame as it was absolutely warranted.

Fun end to the half as Southampton take a free kick, I won't say quickly but it was before the whistle. Led directly to a goal, marriner pulled it back as he hadn't blown. Assuming he said or gestured to wait, absolutely no problem. If he didn't say anything then Southampton can possibly feel aggrieved.

Oh I'm not quite right, the free kick is taken marginally before the refs whistle so it's barely a talking point.
 
No it definitely can't, which is a shame as it was absolutely warranted.
That's not at all true.

I've extracted this from the VAR protocol:

8.4Disciplinary action –yellow cards
If during a review, a yellow card offence is identified, can the player be cautioned (YC)?
If during a review for a goal/penalty/red card a clear yellow or red card offenceis identified, the referee must take the correct disciplinary action.
For example:
•a review for a penalty incident clearly shows that the attacker was guilty of simulation
•a review for a goal clearly shows that an attacker deliberately handled the ball into the goal
•a review for a potential red card for serious foul play, clearly shows that the offence was ‘reckless’ and not ‘serious foul play’
•a review for a potential red card offence during mass confrontation clearly shows other players adopting an aggressive attitude towards an opponent
•a review of a DOGSO offence clearly shows that the offence was (only) ‘stopping a promising attack’

The referee cannot initiate a review for a caution (YC)

Yellow cards can be checked as part of something else - that incident three seconds earlier and out of the box wouldn't have been reviewable and thus no yellow card check.
 
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On a seperate point, I really do wish the referees would be a bit quicker in getting to and from the monitor, at least jog instead of walking to it despite being quite far from the screen. I also don't get why the VAR kept on constantly looking at replays when it looked quite obvious an OFR should take place. The commentator nailed it right away but it took Kevin Friend a good minute to decide he should ask Marriner to look at the screen.
 
I don't think it actually qualifies as a dive. There was contact, but the reason the foul is overturned is because the attacker initiated that contact. That's a different thing from simulating contact where there wasn't any.

Irritating distinction and I agree with you that it feels like cheating. But I think they've been fairly consistent in choosing not to card for attacker-initiated contact in the VAR era.
 
I don't think it actually qualifies as a dive. There was contact, but the reason the foul is overturned is because the attacker initiated that contact. That's a different thing from simulating contact where there wasn't any.

Irritating distinction and I agree with you that it feels like cheating. But I think they've been fairly consistent in choosing not to card for attacker-initiated contact in the VAR era.
Simulation can still be given when contact occurs, especially if the fouled player initiates the contact.
Simulation is an attempt to decieve the referee that something has happened, that has not. Contact does not mitigate it.
I recall Ashley Young being booked for a dive where he initiated the contaxt and the football community was unanimous it was a good decision.
 
If, as I am inferring, the R did an OFR to reverse a PK, then yes he can caution if he sees that. An OFR cannot be initiated to review for a diving caution, but if something reviewable leads to an OFR, the R can caution as a result of what he sees.
Haven't seen the OP incident but strictly speaking this is not completely correct. An OFR is not needed for a review to take place. So for instance ref give a penalty after a dive. VAR recommended a review to ref based on his initial check showing it was a C&O error. Ref initiates the review by asking VAR to complete the review (without the OFR). VAR looks at more angles and confirms no pen, it was simulation. Ref cautions the offender without an OFR. This is all by the book. Of course it would be wise to do an OFR to sell the decision but not necessary.
 
Simulation was not a problem in au say 10 or so years ago but is becoming common place now. Especially in the U18 and U20 games. Nowadays I have a few booking every season for simulation and most of those have some contact involved. Its just that there is absolutely no reason for the player to go down let alone the swan dive action and the penalty appeal that come with it.
 
Simulation can still be given when contact occurs, especially if the fouled player initiates the contact.
Simulation is an attempt to decieve the referee that something has happened, that has not. Contact does not mitigate it.
I recall Ashley Young being booked for a dive where he initiated the contaxt and the football community was unanimous it was a good decision.
Agreed with you on the LOTG definition. But again, as is often the case, what I've said is much closer to how it's generally been applied in the PL (particularly in the VAR era) than what you've stated. I don't think it's right, but it is at least consistent.
 
i think that this has to be a caution for simulation. it has to be. contact is 100% initiated by the attacker moving his leg into the defender. get these cheats cautioned then they might think twice about doing it again.
 
i think that this has to be a caution for simulation. it has to be. contact is 100% initiated by the attacker moving his leg into the defender. get these cheats cautioned then they might think twice about doing it again.

Agree, he knew exactly what he was doing. My initial response when the penalty was given was that something didn't look right, and that was validated by the first replay. As referees we have to be aware of players stepping across opponents to initiate the contact.

I'd go a step further though, if a player is cautioned for simulation there should be a panel to check all simulations each week. If the caution is deemed to be correct they get an automatic one game ban. Likewise if the officials miss it the panel can issue retrospective charges and issue a one game ban. If the same player gets caught again, whether by the officials or retrospectively, they get a two game ban. The next time four games, the next eight, and it keeps getting doubled until they get the message. If implemented correctly that would stamp it out.
 
Agree, he knew exactly what he was doing. My initial response when the penalty was given was that something didn't look right, and that was validated by the first replay. As referees we have to be aware of players stepping across opponents to initiate the contact.

I'd go a step further though, if a player is cautioned for simulation there should be a panel to check all simulations each week. If the caution is deemed to be correct they get an automatic one game ban. Likewise if the officials miss it the panel can issue retrospective charges and issue a one game ban. If the same player gets caught again, whether by the officials or retrospectively, they get a two game ban. The next time four games, the next eight, and it keeps getting doubled until they get the message. If implemented correctly that would stamp it out.
I agree, but it's never gonna happen. We've arguably had 25 years of rife cheating of this nature... roughly from when Klinsmann took centre stage
 
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Agree, he knew exactly what he was doing. My initial response when the penalty was given was that something didn't look right, and that was validated by the first replay. As referees we have to be aware of players stepping across opponents to initiate the contact.

I'd go a step further though, if a player is cautioned for simulation there should be a panel to check all simulations each week. If the caution is deemed to be correct they get an automatic one game ban. Likewise if the officials miss it the panel can issue retrospective charges and issue a one game ban. If the same player gets caught again, whether by the officials or retrospectively, they get a two game ban. The next time four games, the next eight, and it keeps getting doubled until they get the message. If implemented correctly that would stamp it out.

i'd go further still. check every foul, i absolutely loathe the way defenders go down under no contact to get a foul. get them booked etc and that'll stop yet we (refs) seem intent on giving defensive free kicks for an incredibly low threshold of contact
 
i'd go further still. check every foul, i absolutely loathe the way defenders go down under no contact to get a foul. get them booked etc and that'll stop yet we (refs) seem intent on giving defensive free kicks for an incredibly low threshold of contact
'Safe Refereeing is getting out of hand'. It's always been a subtle skill, but Referees in the EPL are positively encouraging 'gamesmanship' with the threshold for defensive FKs. Watching more top flight football than usual, I've also become aware of the frequency of 'professional fouls'. Often, they involve total disregard to safety and are essentially 'off the ball strikes'. There's never been any appetite to stamp out any sort of cheating in the game, except that thuggery is a distant memory. As long as it makes for drama and an audience, it's not going to effect football's finances. Fairness and sportsmanship counts for absolutely zilch
 
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'Safe Refereeing is getting out of hand'. It's always been a subtle skill, but Referees in the EPL are positively encouraging 'gamesmanship' with the threshold for defensive FKs. Watching more top flight football than usual, I've also become aware of the frequency of 'professional fouls'. Often, they involve total disregard to safety and are essentially 'off the ball strikes'. There's never been any appetite to stamp out any sort of cheating in the game, except that thuggery is a distant memory. As long as it makes for drama and an audience, it's not going to effect football's finances. Fairness and sportsmanship counts for absolutely zilch

I get so wound up watching top level football, especially European/international games where the gamesmanship is rife. Luis Suarez last night was an absolute disgrace yet the ref kept lapping it up.

Clearly I'm still part of the problem by continuing to watch it! City on tonight...we'll be just as bad no doubt
 
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