A&H

Liverpool V Newcastle

Purron4

New Member
Newcastle fan here however I'm pretty neutral when it comes to decisions for and against.
Abysmal / Comical defending by Newcastle however that is not why I'm posting.

I cant for the life of me understand the reason behind Wilsons scrambled goal getting disallowed.

For me it's a push from TAA and either penalty or goal shouls be given, the push makes Wilson adjust his body so his hand/arm is slightly unnatural.

Eager to hear other opinions of how ref and VAR got to the outcome of Liverpool DFK?
 
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once it hits wilsons hand/arm and he then scores immediately the goal cannot be allowed in law (as much as i disagree with the law...)

i've not seen it in enough detail to comment on any foul by TAA though
 
There's nothing in law that allows for a handball leading to goal like this to be mitigated because of an opponent's actions.

In a different scenario not leading to a goal, where a referee has to judge an "unnatural position" or from next season if a player's position is "justifiable" in that scenario, then the ref can take into account a defender's impact (e.g. a small push etc.).

I'm a Liverpool fan. I would much rather the goal have stood. For me the contact is unavoidable and incidental. It would have still been a goal if his hand had been somewhere else. It's in no way deliberate. Unfortunately the law is clear. For me though it just highlights that the law is poor here.
 
Just an absurdity that the push arguably contributed to the HB, but the push couldn't be looked at on account of the C&O blah blah blah
I didn't celebrate the goal (as usual) because it was scruffy and my gut feeling was that the VAR forensics would find something. Even the equaliser got a muted reaction from me until Liverpool kicked off again. That's the game now
 
Making this a VAR issue is nonsense. By current laws, it's clearly a handball and the goal has to be disallowed - missing that was a mistake by the referee and it was corrected in good time by the VAR. If not for that fact that people don't like this iteration of the HB law, no one would even mention the VAR here.

As for the push? Trifling at best, and arguably caused more by Wilson slowing down after his shot and TAA running into the back of him. It's a cliche, but if you're giving those, you're giving 10 PK's every week.
 
Making this a VAR issue is nonsense. By current laws, it's clearly a handball and the goal has to be disallowed - missing that was a mistake by the referee and it was corrected in good time by the VAR. If not for that fact that people don't like this iteration of the HB law, no one would even mention the VAR here.

As for the push? Trifling at best, and arguably caused more by Wilson slowing down after his shot and TAA running into the back of him. It's a cliche, but if you're giving those, you're giving 10 PK's every week.
The way you describe it, order of offences anyway (I haven't seen it) if handball occurs before the push then the first offence is penalised anyway.
 
The way you describe it, order of offences anyway (I haven't seen it) if handball occurs before the push then the first offence is penalised anyway.
To be fair, my recollection of it was slightly off! Change "slowing down after his shot" to "slowing down in order to take his shot" and it's a more accurate description. Still very much trifling though and actually, on re-watching, I think the "push" is far enough away from the HB that there's no real causality there. The HB is simply a fluke of where the ball bounces after the save, I don't think anything TAA did can be said to have caused it.

 
No referee would spot it in real time, didn't look like any of the Liverpool players even appealed.

If Wilson had gone down he would've got the pen. Would've been an interesting decision for VAR if a ref, I'm looking at you Michael Oliver, was trying to claim that he played advantage after it's gone in.
 
Every other game is a VAR show. Every goal is met with muted reaction, especially if they're scruffy or if you haven't had time to draw lines on your tele in real-time. Andre Mariner is the best in the business BTW. He is a very rare 'Class Act'
 
Every other game is a VAR show. Every goal is met with muted reaction, especially if they're scruffy or if you haven't had time to draw lines on your tele in real-time. Andre Mariner is the best in the business BTW. He is a very rare 'Class Act'
Again, criticising VAR here is only showing up your own existing biases. VAR made a clearly correct decision and did so quickly - this is exactly what it exists to do. And the way you've chosen to modify your football watching responses due to it is entirely a "you" problem.

Moan about the HB law all you want, but blaming VAR for that is nonsense.
 
Again, criticising VAR here is only showing up your own existing biases. VAR made a clearly correct decision and did so quickly - this is exactly what it exists to do. And the way you've chosen to modify your football watching responses due to it is entirely a "you" problem.

Moan about the HB law all you want, but blaming VAR for that is nonsense.
Just commentating Graeme. Not being patronising to anyone, if you know what I mean. At no point did I say VAR did not adhere perfectly to the protocol on this decision. But I'm perfectly entitled to side with the majority when assessing whether most if not all VAR interjections add or subtract value from the game

Further commentating on the subject, we understand that the Clubs are happy with VAR, yet ALL of the Football Staff are troubled by it
So when they say the 'Clubs', PGMOL must be talking about their employers, 'the money men', some of whom tainted the sport with the ESL

Back on topic, the push was not C&O, the HB had to be called. My reaction to both goals was muted. I watch more Championship, EFL and grass-roots footy for that reason, but I'm haunted by my support of an EPL team. So my commentary will only subside once I'm back out there Reffing myself instead of 'self-harming' on Monday mornings via Ref Watch (or VAR watch & laugh as it ought to be named)
 
Just commentating Graeme. Not being patronising to anyone, if you know what I mean. At no point did I say VAR did not adhere perfectly to the protocol on this decision. But I'm perfectly entitled to side with the majority when assessing whether most if not all VAR interjections add or subtract value from the game

Further commentating on the subject, we understand that the Clubs are happy with VAR, yet ALL of the Football Staff are troubled by it
So when they say the 'Clubs', PGMOL must be talking about their employers, 'the money men', some of whom tainted the sport with the ESL

Back on topic, the push was not C&O, the HB had to be called. My reaction to both goals was muted. I watch more Championship, EFL and grass-roots footy for that reason, but I'm haunted by my support of an EPL team. So my commentary will only subside once I'm back out there Reffing myself instead of 'self-harming' on Monday mornings via Ref Watch (or VAR watch & laugh as it ought to be named)
If VAR is as terrible as you seem to think, surely there are thousands of examples you could point at to prove that point? Trying to hijack this example of when it worked well and efficiently to push the idea of it being the death of football should therefore be unnecessary...and the fact that you feel the need to do it regardless surely risks diluting your point?
 
If VAR is as terrible as you seem to think, surely there are thousands of examples you could point at to prove that point? Trying to hijack this example of when it worked well and efficiently to push the idea of it being the death of football should therefore be unnecessary...and the fact that you feel the need to do it regardless surely risks diluting your point?
Yes, I see you point. But I avoid engaging with you on the subject because we're so far apart that the gap will never be bridged.
For me, it was an excellent game. However, as usual, VAR took centre stage, even though the review in question was 'right'. It's always about VAR
Nuf said on the subject
 
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It was another case where re-refereeing the game with VAR meant a result that football did not expect. Yes, it was partly the fault of the LotG, but it was also a result of VAR. For me, it's another nail in the VAR coffin. TalkSport today (I know, sorry) Motson yawning about VAR saying obviously bin it off. Unless it is significantly changed VAR won't survive another season in front of fans in stadiums IMHO.
 
Really struggling to see how there is any debate on this, it hit his arm and therefore cannot be a goal. The only other possibility the referee had was a penalty for the push but clearly that wasn't going to happen.
 
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Terrible law but the decision was 100% correct. Needs (another) revamp for next season
 
Really struggling to see how there is any debate on this, it hit his arm and therefore cannot be a goal. The only other possibility the referee had was a penalty for the push but clearly that wasn't going to happen.
There doesn't seem to be a debate about whether the decision was correct or not. The only debate is about whether the law should exist. Personally, I'd hate to see my team disallowed a goal under these circumstances. In grassroots, without the microscope, this goal stands every time. Another reason to completely revamp VAR.
 
There doesn't seem to be a debate about whether the decision was correct or not. The only debate is about whether the law should exist. Personally, I'd hate to see my team disallowed a goal under these circumstances. In grassroots, without the microscope, this goal stands every time. Another reason to completely revamp VAR.

Yeah, but a bit of a pointless debate on a thread about a specific incident. As referees we can only operate to the current laws, and under those laws this was one of the easiest disallowed goals you are ever likely to see.
 
I wonder without VAR, how would Liverpool fans, manager and players react if that goal was allowed. I bet there would be some outrage that the linesman did not spot it for example.

VAR did its job here, it stopped an illegal goal, end of debate.

As for the push, barely any contact but some players like Salah would take advantage of that and likely to get a penelty for it.
 
I wonder without VAR, how would Liverpool fans, manager and players react if that goal was allowed. I bet there would be some outrage that the linesman did not spot it for example.

VAR did its job here, it stopped an illegal goal, end of debate.

As for the push, barely any contact but some players like Salah would take advantage of that and likely to get a penelty for it.
Post #3 above ;)
 
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