A&H

Managing dissent But is it a bad way of doing it?

SM

SM

The avuncular one
this has happened twice in the past month. Funnily enough it is games featuring older moany defenders.

First real verbal dissent (about a simple, nothing foul both times) which is clear and loud enough for a caution to be given. Call player over, caution given. Game restarted. Before this there might be the usual moaning to which I would use the Collina stare and finger to lips signal (it appears to be my go to way of silencing player moans if a quiet "it's what I have seen/it's gone, let's get on with the game" hasn't done the trick and it it works for the most part), maybe a warning given by me in presence of the captain saying that this stops etc.

5 minutes later, Central defender (both times) loudly verbally protesting a decision which occurs down the other end of the pitch. Nothing decision again, a simple foul. As the verbals are happening as the game is about to restart, I just wait a second for the game to restart, blow the whistle, caution for dissent and idfk at the position of the dissenting defender. So the position of the ball is moved 60 odd yards down the pitch into a half decent attacking position

It has happened nearly exactly the same way twice. Nobody questioned it. It had the desired effect in both games in stopping any further dissent for the rest of the game ("don't argue you know what he is like"), It is supported by the laws of the game, but is it good or bad match management?

It has happened twice just because it was felt warranted at the time and the situation allowed it rather than a preconceived plan of how to manage dissent.
 
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SM said:
this has happened twice in the past month. Funnily enough it is games featuring older moany defenders.

First real verbal dissent (about a simple, nothing foul both times) which is clear and loud enough for a caution to be given. Call player over, caution given. Game restarted. Before this there might be the usual moaning to which I would use the Collina stare and finger to lips signal. I avoid the finger to the lips - I find it to be very patronising and in my experience, players don't really appreciate it. Each to their own though, and it seems to have worked for you! (it appears to be my go to way of silencing player moans if a quiet "it's what I have seen/it's gone, let's get on with the game" hasn't done the trick and it it works for the most part), maybe a warning given by me in presence of the captain saying that this stops etc.

5 minutes later, Central defender (both times) loudly verbally protesting a decision which occurs down the other end of the pitch. Nothing decision again, a simple foul. As the verbals are happening as the game is about to restart, I just wait a second for the game to restart, blow the whistle, caution for dissent and idfk at the position of the dissenting defender. So the position of the ball is moved 60 odd yards down the pitch into a half decent attacking position. I read this in that you have given a foul, realised there was dissent, waited for the game to restart, and then stop the game and caution the offending player. Is this correct?

It has happened nearly exactly the same way twice. Nobody questioned it. It had the desired effect in both games in stopping any further dissent for the rest of the game ("don't argue you know what he is like"), It is supported by the laws of the game, but is it good or bad match management?

It has happened twice just because it was felt warranted at the time and the situation allowed it rather than a preconceived plan of how to manage dissent.
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Heard the dissent, play has restarted, the dissent is still going on, blow the whistle. I see what you mean, I've not bent the rules in that way.

The finger to lips works much better than the mouth zip hand movement for me.
 
I must admit I am a fan of the finger to lip signal. Works majority of the time in a game where there has been little or no dissent, and the Collina stare help too.

My last game I gave a free kick to the defending team on the edge of their own box and the player who conceded the foul came out with a loud 'Ref....' and put his arms up as he was just about to start a tirade. Gave him the death stare and finger on lips (may have even told him to shush?) and he instantly checked himself and started going back to his position. Was quite impressed with myself.

I think if a player isn't going to heed that warning he clearly has £10 he wishes to donate to CFA.

I don't think there's anything wrong with how you handled it. It had the desired effect and showed you were serious about not accepting dissent. Not something I'd want to make a habit of though I suppose, but if the situation came up I'm sure you'd only end up doing it once before anybody was stupid enough to make the same mistake again.
 
I use to be until I did it to a manager whilst as an assistant at Supply League and that really set him off - things kicked off all because of me. The assessor told me not to do it again, and I never have. I don't like zipping the mouth either - these players aren't children. There are other techniques to managing it, but as I said, each to their own.

I get the situation now SM - thanks.

There is two ways of dealing with this.

1) Do what you did, and stop play, award the IDFK etc...
2) Note what is happening, and at the next stoppage of play, loudly call the offending player over, isolate them, publicly address the issue and award the YC.

I have done both, and assessors have seen both. In my opinion I prefer the latter option, but it does depend on the context of the game.
 
Mm mm, not sure I'd do it to a manager.

If they asked in a respectful manner I'd have no issue, if not I'd be more inclined to say something like 'if you ask properly I'll tell you, if you continue in the manner you have asked currently I'll be forced to report you to the league'.

I think managers are a bit different. You expect to interact with players during the game, I personally don't expect to with managers apart from before and after, and possibly half time.

Each to their own though. Different if you've got a manager about to pop on the sideline.
 
I do the finger to lips to managers as referee. I take little nonsense from them and if the finger doesn't work, I'm quite happy to go over and give them a public dressing down. Never failed to work. Only once have I had to send a manager away from the pitch and he came and apologised afterwards for his behaviour.

That said, if I am AR I wouldn't and haven't done it. Not quite the same.
 
I agree on the AR bit, that's for the ref to do.

Personally I'd go straight to the dressing down bit if a manager carried on, make an example of him for the players and other manager.

It's a very dim manager that carried on after that. 95% won't (made up stat alert monkey :p)
 
SM said:
blow the whistle, caution for dissent and idfk at the position of the dissenting defender
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I may be totally wrong... But attackers are attacking, defender of the attacking team gives me a mouthful - I can blow that up and give an IDFK where the (attacking team) defender is standing?

Have I read that right or misunderstood something?
 
its the position of the offence as the ball is in play.

It hasn't happened this season, but I have had a team make a quick break and start a promising attack and have a defender from that team shouting all sorts at me about a decision while his team mates all flood up field. Perfect time for a dissent caution and idfk right back in their own half? All the guys team mates then get on his back about shutting up. Makes a point.

Effective, but i am not sure how an assessor would view it.
 
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SM said:
Effective, but i am not sure how an assessor would view it.
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I've not done it myself in games, but on games I was an AR, I've had it happen at least twice with assessors. The one time wasn't too high of a level and worked to help settle the game down nicely, but the assessor hated it. Said that it should rarely be done, if ever.

The other game was smooth except for an ungainly explosion early in the second half (only 2-3 cards in the entire game, including that one for dissent) and the assessor loved it, thought it should be used more often.

You tell me (never mind the centre referees) what to take away from that mix of advice. :)
 
Fascinating use of the lotg, monkey. Had never even occured to me before, mainly because I've tended to get that particular restart wrong, I guess.

My only concern would be with the fact that you chose to wait until the game had restarted......malice aforethought?
 
I answered that above, the dissent was ongoing and the restart was about to happen so it was more of a I could blow now or just wait one second....
 
I think you could both risk losing your 'neutrality' but chacun a son goût
 
Finger to lips - no player has done what you suggest, it has never happened. So from my experience your wrong. :D it does invite a player to stop talking.

Jacko, let me explain dissent to you; a team/player isn't happy already. It's an integral part of the dissent process. ;)

And if a team scores from it (assuming there is a touch of course) then that is no more my concern than if a team scores at any other time during the game. That is not a consideration I consider relevant.
 
Last time I id finger to lips was as an AR on supply league... Left back was getting gobby so gave him a stare and finger to lips... Let's just say he wasn't pleased with me... 2 mins later got booked for dissent. Ref asked what his problem with me (had been quiet all game until then) was and I explained, ref not too pleased as he thought I brought it on myself.

My mate stood behind me however thought it was hilarious haha
 
I do the finger to lips 1/2 times a game I think when I'm center, never when I'm on a line
 
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