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My men's game number 3

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Refisalways(Isle of)wight

New Member
Hi everyone

I completed my 3rd mens game last Saturday. It was the most challenging I have had and I wanted to ask for some advice/opinions on some of the incidents that occurred during and after the game.

I had one assistant that was a qualified ref that "regulary ref's Saturday league and College games" whose first decision was to flag for offside before the player in question had even attempted to go for the through ball he was flagging for. For that reason I shook my head and said "play on!" but the defending team had stopped playing and then so did the attacking team to argue with the assistant and then me. I then gave the offside (probably wrongly in hindsight, a drop ball would probably been better?) so we could restart.

From then on the players on both sides were arguing with me and the assistant that had gave the "offside"

My biggest issue with the mens game is the pace being faster than the youth games i'm more experienced in refereeing, for that reason I think I struggle at times to see when there is a foul or not as everything happens that bit quicker. Any tips or advice on that? I have improved in being able to penalise for pushing by positioning myself side on to challenges so i'm looking between the two players so I can see pushes more easiliy which was an issue in game 1 so maybe my positioning could be better for tackles also?

Having potentially missed a couple of "fouls" one player told me I "didn't know what I was doing" so was binned, another player from the opposite team asked me "Do you even like football" and "Is this your first game? It's gotta be, you're awful" so he was binned also. This seemed to improve the conduct somewhat until just before half time.

The ball was right down on the goal line on the assistant's side, two players going for the ball but because of where it was (and possibly my positioning?) I could only see two pairs of legs going for the ball. The assistant however right down by the corner flag should of had a good view of it and he signalled for a corner so I also pointed for that decision. Away team now berate me as this was "Never a corner" and ask me to "Change that lino he's a useless $@%£ (female genitalia!) " I call that player over but as i do other players claim "you cant bin him he's "only" a club assistant" I decide that I wont then for that reason (which I appriciate was a mistake, right?)

Corner comes over and home team score (obviously!) More anger directed at me and the assitant and we restart. Next "foul" I dont give brings more anger and at this point I call both captains over and explain to them that firstly if the assistant gives a decision when he's in a better position than me I'm going to go with it, and everyone needs to calm down....and then it was half time.

In the second half a player I had already booked for foul tackle made another late and in my opinion high foot challenge, In the immediate aftermath an away player pushed the the player who had commited the foul but I didnt think much of this. I called over the player that had made the foul tackle and to his and both teams apparent surprise produced a second yellow card and then showed him the red. His team mates now surround me saying "if he goes, other player has to go for the push" I didnt agree and prepared to restart. Home manager calls over and asks to speak to me (In hindsight I probably should have ignored him or declined his request?) but I go over to him and asks the same thing, Why havent I sent off the other player for the push "It's unfair" I again disagree and we play on.

I give a penalty in the last ten minutes to the away team, attacker and goalie go for the ball and keeper gets to the ball but shoves the striker to the floor as he does. I thought it was a penalty and gave it. The away team initailly called for it but as I give the decision the home team players are shocked and some of the away players now agree with them that it "wasn't enough for a penalty" I stick with the decision and the penalty is scored. As we move back for the restart a defender says "I didnt think it could get much worse but there it is" and I also think at that point he said "He didnt get a rule book for xmas then, F%$£ing useless" I call him over and say i'm binning him. He claims that it wasnt him that said it and second player admits it was himself who said it, but he now says "Just put your book away and lets get on with it" which i do (which is a bad decision I admit, I should have binned the player)

Game finishes and as we come off players from both sides say words to affect of "Your not putting that (Red card) through are you?" I explain (over and over again) that whether or not I made a mistake I have to now stick with it ands report it to which most say "Nah, most referees just dont put it through if they have made a mistake" Assistant ref felt now was a perfect time to exclaim "Ref lost it in second half, useless and I'll happily tell him that to his face" (Cheers,Pal!)

Manager of home team comes to pay me the match fee and says "Unless you dont put it through, I'm going to make a report and appeal the red" I tell him "I'm going to do it the correct way and he should too".....and then I leave to go home!

As I said at the beginning, any advice or tips would be great. Be as critical as you like as I want to improve. I am reasonably happy with the performances at youth level, and the fact I have been selected to officiate on one of the youth cup finals this year suggests my club scores at that level must be high? The adult game however is much more of a challenge for me.

Thankyou for taking the time to reading all of this and I look forward to your replies :)

Many thanks
cleardot.gif

Dave


no_photo.png
 
The Referee Store
Refisalways(Isle of)wight said:
Hi everyone

I completed my 3rd mens game last Saturday. It was the most challenging I have had and I wanted to ask for some advice/opinions on some of the incidents that occurred during and after the game.

I had one assistant that was a qualified ref that "regulary ref's Saturday league and College games" whose first decision was to flag for offside before the player in question had even attempted to go for the through ball he was flagging for. For that reason I shook my head and said "play on!" but the defending team had stopped playing and then so did the attacking team to argue with the assistant and then me. I then gave the offside (probably wrongly in hindsight, a drop ball would probably been better?) so we could restart.

From then on the players on both sides were arguing with me and the assistant that had gave the "offside"

My biggest issue with the mens game is the pace being faster than the youth games i'm more experienced in refereeing, for that reason I think I struggle at times to see when there is a foul or not as everything happens that bit quicker. Any tips or advice on that? I have improved in being able to penalise for pushing by positioning myself side on to challenges so i'm looking between the two players so I can see pushes more easiliy which was an issue in game 1 so maybe my positioning could be better for tackles also?

Having potentially missed a couple of "fouls" one player told me I "didn't know what I was doing" so was binned, another player from the opposite team asked me "Do you even like football" and "Is this your first game? It's gotta be, you're awful" so he was binned also. This seemed to improve the conduct somewhat until just before half time.

The ball was right down on the goal line on the assistant's side, two players going for the ball but because of where it was (and possibly my positioning?) I could only see two pairs of legs going for the ball. The assistant however right down by the corner flag should of had a good view of it and he signalled for a corner so I also pointed for that decision. Away team now berate me as this was "Never a corner" and ask me to "Change that lino he's a useless $@%£ (female genitalia!) " I call that player over but as i do other players claim "you cant bin him he's "only" a club assistant" I decide that I wont then for that reason (which I appriciate was a mistake, right?)

Corner comes over and home team score (obviously!) More anger directed at me and the assitant and we restart. Next "foul" I dont give brings more anger and at this point I call both captains over and explain to them that firstly if the assistant gives a decision when he's in a better position than me I'm going to go with it, and everyone needs to calm down....and then it was half time.

In the second half a player I had already booked for foul tackle made another late and in my opinion high foot challenge, In the immediate aftermath an away player pushed the the player who had commited the foul but I didnt think much of this. I called over the player that had made the foul tackle and to his and both teams apparent surprise produced a second yellow card and then showed him the red. His team mates now surround me saying "if he goes, other player has to go for the push" I didnt agree and prepared to restart. Home manager calls over and asks to speak to me (In hindsight I probably should have ignored him or declined his request?) but I go over to him and asks the same thing, Why havent I sent off the other player for the push "It's unfair" I again disagree and we play on.

I give a penalty in the last ten minutes to the away team, attacker and goalie go for the ball and keeper gets to the ball but shoves the striker to the floor as he does. I thought it was a penalty and gave it. The away team initailly called for it but as I give the decision the home team players are shocked and some of the away players now agree with them that it "wasn't enough for a penalty" I stick with the decision and the penalty is scored. As we move back for the restart a defender says "I didnt think it could get much worse but there it is" and I also think at that point he said "He didnt get a rule book for xmas then, F%$£ing useless" I call him over and say i'm binning him. He claims that it wasnt him that said it and second player admits it was himself who said it, but he now says "Just put your book away and lets get on with it" which i do (which is a bad decision I admit, I should have binned the player)

Game finishes and as we come off players from both sides say words to affect of "Your not putting that (Red card) through are you?" I explain (over and over again) that whether or not I made a mistake I have to now stick with it ands report it to which most say "Nah, most referees just dont put it through if they have made a mistake" Assistant ref felt now was a perfect time to exclaim "Ref lost it in second half, useless and I'll happily tell him that to his face" (Cheers,Pal!)

Manager of home team comes to pay me the match fee and says "Unless you dont put it through, I'm going to make a report and appeal the red" I tell him "I'm going to do it the correct way and he should too".....and then I leave to go home!

As I said at the beginning, any advice or tips would be great. Be as critical as you like as I want to improve. I am reasonably happy with the performances at youth level, and the fact I have been selected to officiate on one of the youth cup finals this year suggests my club scores at that level must be high? The adult game however is much more of a challenge for me.

Thankyou for taking the time to reading all of this and I look forward to your replies :)

Many thanks
cleardot.gif

Dave


no_photo.png
Click to expand...
Good Post. I think you have identified the no no's.
Make a decision and stick with it. You have allowed players to referee the game. You have given them power and it sounds like they abused it.

My two pence on the CAR is that, so long as they are credible and doing the job properly I like to think I afford as much protection to a CAR as a NAR. They are, after all, a member of your team as well, and they are also, in a lot of cases, a volunteer. And even if they aren't doing the greatest job you adapt to cope with it and should be seen to be dealing with dissent towards their decisions.

Self reflection is a great characteristic of any referee. We all have games like above.

What are your fitness levels like? If you are struggling to keep up with play then you need to get smarter about positioning.
Are you struggling to see things because you are too close? Or too far away?
Are you older or younger? Is there an opportunity to significantly improve fitness? You're never to old too but age will bring about some restriction in the level and intensity of training but you might want to consider if you are doing too much or too little in between games as well
 
Great read Dave!

Well done for getting through it. Very well done for been able to self-analyse.
It's not easy and you might have quite a few games like this in the beginning. It's highly unlikely you will feel like a god after 3,4 or 10,11 games. It takes matches and experience of different situations to get the confidence and actions together.

You've highlighted some challenges in the match. You could also focus on some more good things you did. You identified a second yellow card offence and followed through with it. Excellent. You awarded a contentious penalty where you took responsibility even though you knew you would be challenged. You handled the awkward post-match well. You are doing the paperwork right. You have the ability to analyse your performance and be open to criticism. You clearly identified the first offside incident as the point where players challenged your match control.

All this suggests you can do this. Nice work!

On the individual points:
CARs/NARs mixed - thankfully I don't have to deal with that - I'm sure others will advise.
Getting side on - yes, with ballooning high balls and goalkicks, use the time the ball is in the air to get side on.
Seeing fouls - the best positioning is the one where you see the foul! Remember to look at arms as well as feet. Takes time, more matches.

Red card incident afters - seems like an easy YC for the push. You don't say if the afters happened because the players knew/didn't know what cards were coming. Sometimes getting the card out of your pocket early calms everyone down. They see the YC and know the player is going off. Sometimes no surprises works best: "calm down, it's just two yellows, but it means he's off".

Authority overall - use the whistle at mass confrontations. Sometimes you have to shut players up, shut them down, with the whistle. It's a great tool for taking back control and taking players' attention from each other to you.

Good luck with the next matches;)
 
My second OA game wasn’t too dissimilar to this. At the risk of jinxing it almost every game since has been really enjoyable.

Upon reflection I found I needed to make more of an effort to get side-on to the challenges for a better view. Same with offsides, we don’t have CAR’s in my county so it’s all on the ref but I made sure I worked harder to get wide where I could see accross the line. On top of that I made sure I cut around the pitch more to ensure I was in better positions to see tackles and potential fouls. I’ve made sure I’ve grafted every game since and it has helped.

The rest comes with experience IMO. Spotting infringements and managing players is something I’ve been getting better at over time. No doubt that’s common with everyone on here.

I’ve used some good advice from this site such as slowing the game right down and lowering your tolerance levels when the players start acting up. Same with any 50/50 calls for ball in/out, if you’re not sure delay slightly to see players reactions...sometimes they’ll make the decision for you by walking away without claiming. If they’re all screaming for it and you’re not sure then give the GK instead of the corner. It’ll be forgot about in a minute. The other way around and someone scores, well ‘you cost them the game!’. If the CAR has called it go with him, explain, then manage the dissent.

Sounds like you used the sin bin well on the most part. I wouldn’t let up on that in the sending half if you’ve been strict in the first half.

You’ve identified where you could improve, my advice is to ensure you don’t repeat those mistakes in future games. Apart from that I wouldn’t let it get to you too much. It sounds like you had 2 teams and lines full of nobheads, you could’ve had a 10/10 and still took stick. Sometimes you just can’t win with them which is why I’ve stopped paying any attention to the general crying over decisions, unless it warrants disciplinary action.
 
Wow, lots there! Let's go through in order...

* If an assistant tells you they're a qualified ref, immediately assume they're not. Any qualified ref will know that you're obliged to treat them as a CAR regardless, so generally won't bother to bring it up. I know you say that this incident let to a drop ball, I'd argue that there's no real reason to stop play here - player have been told since they were 10 to play to the whistle. You can always discuss the incident at the next natural stoppage if you want to explain it, but don't go around inventing stoppages when you don't need to.

*In terms of the pace of the game, I think you've actually identified the changes that are needed - get side on where possible, work on your fitness so that you can achieve this for 90 minutes if required. At youth level it's sometimes possible to get away with being fairly immobile, as the speed of the game increases this becomes less and less effective.

*Sin bins both sound correct and it also sounds like you also identified an improvement in behaviour as a result. Remember how well that worked in future games if you find yourself hesitating to use a card!

*Your assistants are there to help you, you're absolutely correct to use them when you need to. But the other side of the coin is that you need to support them as well - in this case, by (I would argue) showing a straight red card for offensive use of the C word. If you want them to stick their neck out and give decisions against their team, you've got to be prepared to return that by looking after them as well as you can.

*From your description, I would be considering a yellow for the push but certainly don't see why it could require a sending off. But something like that is going to be so dependant on what you saw and it is your call in the end. If a team gets too vocal with their complaints, that can get to a point where a sin bin might be required as well - but try very hard to used the stepped approach to avoid this, as you're going to become enemy number 1 if you do have to resort to that!

*I've done the exact same thing and let a player talk me out of a card, but I think we both know that's a terrible idea. Your initial instinct is usually correct and if your hand is twitching towards your pocket, stick with it.

*People expect you to hang around for handshakes at the end of the game and that's fine, but don't go out of your way looking for them. And if you've had a tough game, make sure you're positioned far enough from centre that players aren't forced to walk past you and snub you as that creates an unnecessary flash point. Same goes for where you leave your bag, you want to be comfortably out of earshot compared to the teams.

*I've got a little bit of sympathy for "Are you going to put that in?" questions, but it sounds like they were well over the line in threatening you. Put the red in, put an extraordinary report in for the threat/intimidation attempt by the manager and make sure they spend a good few week well away from anything football related.

Good self-reflection however, if you keep analysing your performances in this much detail you'll improve incredibly fast!
 
Refisalways(Isle of)wight said:
Hi everyone

I completed my 3rd mens game last Saturday. It was the most challenging I have had and I wanted to ask for some advice/opinions on some of the incidents that occurred during and after the game.

I had one assistant that was a qualified ref that "regulary ref's Saturday league and College games" whose first decision was to flag for offside before the player in question had even attempted to go for the through ball he was flagging for. For that reason I shook my head and said "play on!" but the defending team had stopped playing and then so did the attacking team to argue with the assistant and then me. I then gave the offside (probably wrongly in hindsight, a drop ball would probably been better?) so we could restart.

From then on the players on both sides were arguing with me and the assistant that had gave the "offside"

My biggest issue with the mens game is the pace being faster than the youth games i'm more experienced in refereeing, for that reason I think I struggle at times to see when there is a foul or not as everything happens that bit quicker. Any tips or advice on that? I have improved in being able to penalise for pushing by positioning myself side on to challenges so i'm looking between the two players so I can see pushes more easiliy which was an issue in game 1 so maybe my positioning could be better for tackles also?

Having potentially missed a couple of "fouls" one player told me I "didn't know what I was doing" so was binned, another player from the opposite team asked me "Do you even like football" and "Is this your first game? It's gotta be, you're awful" so he was binned also. This seemed to improve the conduct somewhat until just before half time.

The ball was right down on the goal line on the assistant's side, two players going for the ball but because of where it was (and possibly my positioning?) I could only see two pairs of legs going for the ball. The assistant however right down by the corner flag should of had a good view of it and he signalled for a corner so I also pointed for that decision. Away team now berate me as this was "Never a corner" and ask me to "Change that lino he's a useless $@%£ (female genitalia!) " I call that player over but as i do other players claim "you cant bin him he's "only" a club assistant" I decide that I wont then for that reason (which I appriciate was a mistake, right?)

Corner comes over and home team score (obviously!) More anger directed at me and the assitant and we restart. Next "foul" I dont give brings more anger and at this point I call both captains over and explain to them that firstly if the assistant gives a decision when he's in a better position than me I'm going to go with it, and everyone needs to calm down....and then it was half time.

In the second half a player I had already booked for foul tackle made another late and in my opinion high foot challenge, In the immediate aftermath an away player pushed the the player who had commited the foul but I didnt think much of this. I called over the player that had made the foul tackle and to his and both teams apparent surprise produced a second yellow card and then showed him the red. His team mates now surround me saying "if he goes, other player has to go for the push" I didnt agree and prepared to restart. Home manager calls over and asks to speak to me (In hindsight I probably should have ignored him or declined his request?) but I go over to him and asks the same thing, Why havent I sent off the other player for the push "It's unfair" I again disagree and we play on.

I give a penalty in the last ten minutes to the away team, attacker and goalie go for the ball and keeper gets to the ball but shoves the striker to the floor as he does. I thought it was a penalty and gave it. The away team initailly called for it but as I give the decision the home team players are shocked and some of the away players now agree with them that it "wasn't enough for a penalty" I stick with the decision and the penalty is scored. As we move back for the restart a defender says "I didnt think it could get much worse but there it is" and I also think at that point he said "He didnt get a rule book for xmas then, F%$£ing useless" I call him over and say i'm binning him. He claims that it wasnt him that said it and second player admits it was himself who said it, but he now says "Just put your book away and lets get on with it" which i do (which is a bad decision I admit, I should have binned the player)

Game finishes and as we come off players from both sides say words to affect of "Your not putting that (Red card) through are you?" I explain (over and over again) that whether or not I made a mistake I have to now stick with it ands report it to which most say "Nah, most referees just dont put it through if they have made a mistake" Assistant ref felt now was a perfect time to exclaim "Ref lost it in second half, useless and I'll happily tell him that to his face" (Cheers,Pal!)

Manager of home team comes to pay me the match fee and says "Unless you dont put it through, I'm going to make a report and appeal the red" I tell him "I'm going to do it the correct way and he should too".....and then I leave to go home!

As I said at the beginning, any advice or tips would be great. Be as critical as you like as I want to improve. I am reasonably happy with the performances at youth level, and the fact I have been selected to officiate on one of the youth cup finals this year suggests my club scores at that level must be high? The adult game however is much more of a challenge for me.

Thankyou for taking the time to reading all of this and I look forward to your replies :)

Many thanks
cleardot.gif

Dave


no_photo.png
Click to expand...
I'd say the most important feedback is that there's nothing new in your post. Your report echoes numerous posts submitted quite frequently by other referees finding their feet. If you want to be good at something, you need to know what to expect, even if it takes an eye-watering experience to get there. At least now you can reflect on what happened and formulate a plan hit back... next time
 
Well done Dave, I'm learning too so interested in this thread too.

With regards to putting cards through once you've shown them - always do this. If the club appeals then that's their call. Follow the process. If you don't you would undermine so much of your hard work as word can get round you're able to be influenced.

With regards to the CAR/NAR, I work with CARs and I protect them as I would a NAR. It's ultimately my call if I go with their decision so a challenge to them is a challenge to my authority. Offinabus applies regardless of the role of the person it's directed at.
(Oh and several CARs have told me they are qualified refs only for them to be pretty rubbish linos)
 
Some great advice here, just a little tuppennyworth from me.....was the high foot challenge worthy of a straight red?
 
I'm just going to agree with Graeme for the most part. One tip, which may or may not help, if you think you're easily persuaded by players not to caution - make your mind up quickly, get your book out and tell yourself you don't put it back until you've done the job.

Same goes for the whistle, btw, if you've put it to your mouth you're going to use it (I find now, as a result, that I grip it tightly sometimes whilst I'm making a decision, which normally means I'm not going to blow). Both help prevent you second guessing yourself.
 
Just to let you know, the FA treats CARs as match officials. So, violent conduct and OFFINABUS (sounds like there was some in this match) towards a CAR carries the same suspension and fine as violent conduct and OFFINABUS against a qualified referee.
 
We're meant to treat all ARs the same, regardless of their C or N designation. Notwithstanding the likelihood that they're not fit for the job, we're meant to tap into our people skills to get the best out of'em, even when they morph from one substitute to another; many times over
We definitely should be on the yellow or red card road, the instant anyone directs unsavoury gyp at our flag wielding friends
 
Hi Dave,
Good advice above. I will be non specific on situational management. It sounds like in most cases you know what to do. Have more confidence in yourself and follow through. Don't show any trace of self doubt as players read that and pounce on it.

Also tighten up your level of leniency and empathy a little especialy in game like the OP. It would improve your match control.
 
Refisalways(Isle of)wight said:
My biggest issue with the mens game is the pace being faster than the youth games i'm more experienced in refereeing, for that reason I think I struggle at times to see when there is a foul or not as everything happens that bit quicker. Any tips or advice on that?
Click to expand...

You'll pick it up via experience if you're reliably being assigned games of similar calibre. In the future, especially if you go for promotion, you may have the opposite problem when you get the odd reserve appointment, in that the game is so slow you'll find it difficult to call fouls. :p
 
Funny coincidence over the weekend going through my association's community league regulations that I'd be refereeing this year:

6.4.6. A Club appointed Match Official will have the power to sanction players in accordance with the Laws of the Game.
a) If the fixture has a club person as an Assistant Referee, it is recommended that they do not call offside, but assist with all other aspects of an Assistant Referee
 
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