Ref4Me

Newcastle-Southampton, first Hendrick caution

RefIADad

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Is anyone else thinking a straight red for SFP on Hendrick's first caution? The scissoring action from behind moves me from caution to send-off. I don't think it's a clear and obvious error to give a caution there, but I really don't like those kinds of scissor tackles. I think the possibility for a sprained ankle or worse is high for this type of challenge.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Is anyone else thinking a straight red for SFP on Hendrick's first caution? The scissoring action from behind moves me from caution to send-off. I don't think it's a clear and obvious error to give a caution there, but I really don't like those kinds of scissor tackles. I think the possibility for a sprained ankle or worse is high for this type of challenge.
No, not at all
There were two incidents which merited reflection
1) How Pawson cautioned Willock instead of Hendrick (for which the latter was correctly dismissed after protestations) when it was right in front of the R
2) Whether Southampton were fortunate to avoid a DOGSO RC
BT Sport didn't show the incident from any decent angles, but Pawson may have let the away team off lightly

BTW, for once BT Sport had something decent on offer. The female co-commentator was very good. Instead of the usual verbal diarrhoea on that channel
 

RefIADad

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
No, not at all
There were two incidents which merited reflection
1) How Pawson cautioned Willock instead of Hendrick (for which the latter was correctly dismissed after protestations) when it was right in front of the R
2) Whether Southampton were fortunate to avoid a DOGSO RC
BT Sport didn't show the incident from any decent angles, but Pawson may have let the away team off lightly

BTW, for once BT Sport had something decent on offer. The female co-commentator was very good. Instead of the usual verbal diarrhoea on that channel

Agreed that the case of (nearly) mistaken identity was not a good look for a Premier League referee. The ultimate objective was eventually met, but the optics left something to be desired. I didn't see the DOGSO play you mentioned yet as I was driving.

For me, the first Hendrick challenge should have been red. If it's just a challenge from behind, that's one thing. If it's just a scissors-type challenge, that's probably a caution (but an orange card for me). When I saw the challenge at live speed on the match highlights after getting home, I winced. On the replay, to me it confirmed that the challenge is coming from (more or less) behind with the scissoring action. Like I said, I don't think it's a clear and obvious error to not send Hendrick off there. At the Premier League level, maybe that doesn't tick the boxes for endangering player safety. But in the games I do, I'd be disappointed in myself if I had a good view of that challenge and didn't go straight red.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Agreed that the case of (nearly) mistaken identity was not a good look for a Premier League referee. The ultimate objective was eventually met, but the optics left something to be desired. I didn't see the DOGSO play you mentioned yet as I was driving.

For me, the first Hendrick challenge should have been red. If it's just a challenge from behind, that's one thing. If it's just a scissors-type challenge, that's probably a caution (but an orange card for me). When I saw the challenge at live speed on the match highlights after getting home, I winced. On the replay, to me it confirmed that the challenge is coming from (more or less) behind with the scissoring action. Like I said, I don't think it's a clear and obvious error to not send Hendrick off there. At the Premier League level, maybe that doesn't tick the boxes for endangering player safety. But in the games I do, I'd be disappointed in myself if I had a good view of that challenge and didn't go straight red.
The Hendrick tackle attracted minimal comment during the live coverage. That doesn't mean the commentary team knew what the time of day, but it would've been a misuse of VAR (again) to get involved. On the UEFA scale of 1-to-10, I'd have given it a 7, maybe an 8 at a push, but certainly not the 9 or 10 that represents SFP
Perhaps if you were R, maybe the VAR wouldn't have opposed your decision, but then, who the hell knows?
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Full disclosure, I’m a Newcastle fan:

1. that’s DOGSO.
2. The Hendrick yellow is a textbook yellow.
I thought it was probably DOGSO. The replays were unhelpful though
In a way, I'm glad we didn't get the decision. Good to win despite adversity
 

RefIADad

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
The Hendrick tackle attracted minimal comment during the live coverage. That doesn't mean the commentary team knew what the time of day, but it would've been a misuse of VAR (again) to get involved. On the UEFA scale of 1-to-10, I'd have given it a 7, maybe an 8 at a push, but certainly not the 9 or 10 that represents SFP
Perhaps if you were R, maybe the VAR wouldn't have opposed your decision, but then, who the hell knows?

Fair points. I think it’s more of a 8-9, but if I were your VAR and you went yellow I wouldn’t have recommended an OFR if you explained to me what you have just said. This is one of those where the on field call should stand without an OFR. It’s not like Hendrick flew in two footed and hit the SOU player at knee height.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Fair points. I think it’s more of a 8-9, but if I were your VAR and you went yellow I wouldn’t have recommended an OFR if you explained to me what you have just said. This is one of those where the on field call should stand without an OFR. It’s not like Hendrick flew in two footed and hit the SOU player at knee height.
I suppose Hendrick rolled the dice and they bounced off the right referee on this occasion
 

Jtpetherick1

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
From memory, the contact Hendrick makes is with his legs rather than his foot (happy to be corrected) and that’s very rarely going to be SFP.
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
From memory, the contact Hendrick makes is with his legs rather than his foot (happy to be corrected) and that’s very rarely going to be SFP.

Pretty much exactly what I was about to type. A clumsy challenge which resulted in leg entanglement and nothing more. Not excessively forceful either, just poorly timed and reckless. Pawson got it spot on. 🙂
 
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