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Neymar was fouled ten times Vs Switzerland

one

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This for me falls under persistent infringement even if its done by ten different opponents. After a few/several fouls (when it becomes apparent it is a tactic), get the captain and tell him the next foul on the said player is a yellow card and then follow through.

Thoughts?
 
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Poor referees from around the world following poor instructions.

A lot of these referees are like fish out of water, to much to take on board with the VAR etc. There is no way these Referees’s are going into these games with a clear state of mind.
 
Men in Black said:
Poor referees from around the world following poor instructions.

A lot of these referees are like fish out of water, to much to take on board with the VAR etc. There is no way these Referees’s are going into these games with a clear state of mind.
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That's very harsh MIB. You admit, bar 10 you haven't even heard the name of these referees yet you pass judgement as if you have been following their refereeing career. It has nothing to do with the lack of English referees in the World cup does it? :p
 
Not sure on exact numbers officially but pre World Cup ive heard of 10 out of 34 referees at this Tournament.

The first two group games are the easy ones, wait until last group games onwards then the heat will be turned up because as a referee you will be sending a nation home with a bad decision, players will revert to type forgetting VAR is watching & things will really start to get interesting.

Put it this way with the way 40 odd fouls that went unpunished in the S Korea v Sweden game & the persistent infringing of 10yrds in the England v Tunisia game do you think the most lucrative most popular league in the world (The Premier League) would stand for that? The Referees would be slaughtered both in the media & internally.

But hey it’s the World Cup & every referee deserves to fulfill there dream on the biggest stage of all, apart from the English lads of course ;)
 
I get your point MiB bu i'm sure FIFA looked closer than how many refs you may of heard of in their deliberations..

I sort of accept that refs can miss stuff, i don't accept that the 'throng' in the VAR bus can miss anything!!!
 
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one said:
This for me falls under persistent infringement even if its done by ten different opponents. After a few/several fouls (when it becomes apparent it is a tactic), get the captain and tell him the next foul on the said player is a yellow card and then follow through.

Thoughts?
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Spot on. Man Utds late 90s team were masters at it. They all took a turn each at a foul, knowing by its own merit it was not enough in itself for a card.
A referee who is tuned in should be aware of repeated fouls on the same player. Afterall, these officials are offered all the home work they could need?
Not only is there a risk to say, Neymar being injured, there is a chance he reacts to the 7th foul and is himself sent off. Which is probably the other teams intention
I think on the third, on same guy, by a diff player, alarm bells should start to ring, the fourth, def a public warning/captain in if thats your bag, if we are getting to five early on then its now time to put a stop to it. Card out and make it clear anybody who continues to foul like that will suffer the same fate. You cant give teams unlimited pot shots
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Spot on. Man Utds late 90s team were masters at it. They all took a turn each at a foul, knowing by its own merit it was not enough in itself for a card.
A referee who is tuned in should be aware of repeated fouls on the same player. Afterall, these officials are offered all the home work they could need?
Not only is there a risk to say, Neymar being injured, there is a chance he reacts to the 7th foul and is himself sent off. Which is probably the other teams intention
I think on the third, on same guy, by a diff player, alarm bells should start to ring, the fourth, def a public warning/captain in if thats your bag, if we are getting to five early on then its now time to put a stop to it. Card out and make it clear anybody who continues to foul like that will suffer the same fate. You cant give teams unlimited pot shots
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Didnt Oliver do sth similar this season or the one past?
 
Nalbi said:
Didnt Oliver do sth similar this season or the one past?
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Yes I think he did, he was getting fed up of silly nothing fouls and took a caution which by itself was maybe not a card other than for a team persistent fouling, I remember Keith Kackett slated him because the sanction he gave was not justfied in itself but, surely "unsporting behaviour" covers that nicely? Without checking back, it was maybe fouling Hazard every two mins?
Am sure Oliver called in Jones/Smalling, whoever captain was, and 1 min later someone committed another foul, I mean, what more can the referee do!!!
 
There have been posts elsewhere about referees being encouraged to minimise the number of yellows. I think that's a ridiculous approach for FIFA to take - if you don't like a referee's approach to yellow cards, don't appoint him to the finals. Don't say "well you've had a great season, but now we want you to come to Russia and totally change your approach", because that's how you sow uncertainty in their heads.

Me and Ciley have had a long discussion about how even blatant dissent seems to have been quietly ignored so far this tournament, and I agree completely with @one 's original point that either because of instruction or because they have too much to think about, referees seem happy to let PI go completely unpunished as well. I sympathise with the difficult position referees are being put in, but at the end of the day, they're hired to apply the LOTG, and letting this kid of fouling go unpunished is failing to do that.

As others have said above, there are two situations where I actively choose to get the captains involved. One is when a dissenting playing is going in the book and needs a captain to make sure the message sink in. And the other is this.
 
Agree with above. Certainly not after a personal dispute. Nothing but respect for other folks posts. BUT, if the refs have been told or "instructed" or "advised" how they are to handle incidents, then, you cant blame them for doing so. They might be hired to apply the LOTG , which of course is a book, but they have been hired by a human committee who have given them advice on how they want things to be handled. Ref goes out and comes back in with 6 cards for dissent, first thing the committe will say to him on the debrief, is, "did you not listen to what we said?"

rock and hard place yes. The lotg book is not whats going to keep you in the tournament though. Applying the lotg (or not too) as instructed by the referee committe, is. i know what I would be doing.....

Public park am I cautioning CR7 (sorry but its the best example so far), yes, 75%. World cup (I realise I wont be there but I trying to step into ref shoes for 2 secs), No, 75% am not cautioning. You will be viewed as a loose cannon if you go out and referee to you own values when you have been instructed to do otherwise.

and I can relate to personal experience, that, that simply will not work. I can only think of 2 high profile examples on my lifetime where a top class referee can do his own thing and get away with it no matter what. Very very much in the minority...
 
Woudnt mind being a fly on the wall when the refs got there briefing from FIFA.

I bet some of it would have knocked u off your seat.
 
On the dissent point, I was watching the Portugal game at uni and the amount of times people were stunned that Ronaldo hadn't been booked for dissent was stunning. Fact of the matter is, people see it on TV and emulate it lower down. Does nothing to help us.
 
Would the same folk be so excited for the next Portugal game knowing Ronaldo was suspended?

( yes i know he would not be suspended for that one yc but the theroy is the same)
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Would the same folk be so excited for the next Portugal game knowing Ronaldo was suspended?

( yes i know he would not be suspended for that one yc but the theroy is the same)
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I don't for a second see how that's the ref's responsibility - Ronaldo is a grown up and is responsible for his own actions.
 
GraemeS said:
I don't for a second see how that's the ref's responsibility - Ronaldo is a grown up and is responsible for his own actions.
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But these refs are given the responsibilty of making the tournament the best spectacle that it can possibly be. They are not just there to give throw ins or blow whistle to start play. They are the best of the best, the elite of the elite and as has been stated, they , unlike me, you, and 99% of folk who will read this, are managing the occassion in front of them. Us mortals merely referee the game we are given. Its nothing like the same thing.

If I thought I could disguise it properly, I would recite a true story from a game involving, one of the big two in Glasgow. Am not saying its right, but, am saying its how it is.
 
I don't really understand the logic behind "Minimise yellows to keep the players on the pitch to in turn keep the public interested". This is actually a double edged sword. Don't card cautionable offences and that encourages players to make more risky challenges. That would increase the chance of fouled players being injured and put out of the game (this has already happens to some players). It also increases the number of fouls and a stop start to the game lowering its attractiveness and public interest.

A great example of using yellow cards making the game more attractive was Germany Vs Mexico. It could have ended up a farce in time wasting. Timely yellow cards pretty much made sure that didn't happen.

As far as PI, its as if they have been told not to caution for PI. Russia vs Saudi Arabia, Golovin committed 7 fouls, he was eventually cautioned in the 88th minute but not for PI, it was a reckless challenge. Mascherano committed 6 fouls without a card with a few others getting away with 5 or 6 fouls as well. Etobo from Nigeria had 8 fouls against him.
 
The public is a side consideration. Sponsors, TV, corporate, and then filtering down to punters putting bums on seats

I dont have stats. If there are any. But, Wayne Rooney guilty of dissent in prob every game for his 12? year stint at Utd
Number of cautions for dissent anybody?
Why so low.....biggest draw in the EPL............is it right? No. is it life. yes.
 
alexgr said:
On the dissent point, I was watching the Portugal game at uni and the amount of times people were stunned that Ronaldo hadn't been booked for dissent was stunning. Fact of the matter is, people see it on TV and emulate it lower down. Does nothing to help us.
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My fav player of all time is Cantona. Either watching him live or on tv, as a kid, (well, younger person than I am now), was I influenced by him being sent off so often? Yes, it made me not fussed if i was him, if I was sent off so often. In no way would I look at Eric being sent off and it be a deterrent. Dont buy into the kids see it on tv so if Ronaldo gets cautioned, then nobody will shout at you next season.
 
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