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None use of cards

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spuddy1878

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Im only four league (competitive) games into my refereeing career but when ive looked back at the four games ive covered going by the LOTG i should have probably issued two RC, as of yet i haven't even issued a YC.

The four games ive covered have been U13-U14 and in three of them there was a ten goal difference in the games.

Ive used i think common sense rather than sticking to the LOTG

One example deliberate hand ball DOGSO should have been red but as his team had ten goal advantage i let it go.

The other was foul and abusive which should have been yellow minimum although the stern word i had did do the trick.

Question is should is top with the common sense approach and edge more to the LOTG side of hings
 
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spuddy1878 said:
Question is should is top with the common sense approach and edge more to the LOTG side of hings
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Yes?

You're only making things more difficult for everyone else when you don't apply the laws. Plus, if you do have any aspirations of going up the refereeing ladder you'll be crucified for applying this 'common sense' instead of the LOTG.
 
spuddy1878 said:
Im only four league (competitive) games into my refereeing career but when ive looked back at the four games ive covered going by the LOTG i should have probably issued two RC, as of yet i haven't even issued a YC.

The four games ive covered have been U13-U14 and in three of them there was a ten goal difference in the games.

Ive used i think common sense rather than sticking to the LOTG

One example deliberate hand ball DOGSO should have been red but as his team had ten goal advantage i let it go.

The other was foul and abusive which should have been yellow minimum although the stern word i had did do the trick.

Question is should is top with the common sense approach and edge more to the LOTG side of hings
Click to expand...

I wouldn't let things slide just because of the score, you're opening yourself up to some difficult scenarios. At that age group, we're advised to take a player who we would give a RC to to their coach and advise they sub the player off. This is again a grey area, with what age group would we turn that into a RC?

As to the yellow, a stern word will likely make many players 'see the light' if it means they get away with no card.
 
RobOda said:
Yes?

You're only making things more difficult for everyone else when you don't apply the laws. Plus, if you do have any aspirations of going up the refereeing ladder you'll be crucified for applying this 'common sense' instead of the LOTG.
Click to expand...

If i wanted to progress (which i dont) obviously id need to do things by the book.

You mention making things more difficult for everyone but in the leagues im covering ive quickly found that the common sense comes into it more than the LOTG with the local refs.
 
spuddy1878 said:
If i wanted to progress (which i dont) obviously id need to do things by the book.

You mention making things more difficult for everyone but in the leagues im covering ive quickly found that the common sense comes into it more than the LOTG with the local refs.
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For the sake of a small fine and one game ban for the DOGSO, that kid is now likely to turn up next week and re-offend. So have you done him any favours by failing to contribute appropriately to his development?
If you think that Foul & Abusive can be dealt with by way of a stern word, you have some grim times in the middle ahead of you
I know you're new to the game, so no judgements from me, but there's some excellent advice on here which you need to tap into. As soon as you start tearing chunks out of the book, where does it stop and what's the point of being a referee?
 
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Big Cat said:
For the sake of a small fine and one game ban for the DOGSO, that kid is now likely to turn up next week and re-offend. So have you done him any favours by failing to contribute appropraitely to his development?
If you think that Foul & Abusive can be dealt with by way of a stern word, you have some grim times in the middle ahead of you
I know you're new to the game, so no judgements from me, but there's some excellent advice on here which you need to tap into. As soon as you start tearing chunks out of the book, where does it stop and what's the point of being a referee?
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I think it actually worked on this occasion (granted it might not on others)

There was an incident shortly after which his team mates questioned and i heard him say to a team mate "I cant say anything as he will give me a red card"
 
Use your cards, they help match control and as you do not want to progress you don't have to worry about club marks. 2 youth games 5 yellows so far.
 
spuddy1878 said:
If i wanted to progress (which i dont) obviously id need to do things by the book.

You mention making things more difficult for everyone but in the leagues im covering ive quickly found that the common sense comes into it more than the LOTG with the local refs.
Click to expand...

I think you're stepping into dangerous territory by saying that because you don't want to progress you don't need to do things by the book. You're running the risk of an assessor having a field day with a RC not being used when it should.
 
Referee117 said:
At that age group, we're advised to take a player who we would give a RC to to their coach and advise they sub the player off.

This is again a grey area, with what age group would we turn that into a RC?
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Who's advising this? This is ill advice. It only becomes a grey area when you avoid apllication of law.
 
By using cards you are protecting yourself and players although managers and parents may not agree. A red card challenge needs to dealt with. Dissent and offinabus will never go away with out it being dealt with. I know you are new to reffing but as you do more games you will feel more confident to give out cards. It is a big debate on here at what age should you give out cards and I feel they should be in full use at 9 aside upwards. And in extreme circumstances used in 7 aside and under. Do not get sucked into the you can't book kids. They need to learn the boundries in football as well as life.
 
you are becoming last weeks ref, but last weeks ref allowed i, tell the young referees i advise we dont give you nice colured cards to keep in your pocket
 
As a referee, your first penalty award, first yellow card and first red card are big deals for you. I get that you might have times where you think you can manage a situation, rather than give the sanction.

However, when you get appointed to the game, you are being paid by the clubs to act as a referee, therefore they are expecting you to apply the laws as a referee. In my county, many of the youth teams are the junior teams for Contrib or Supply league. They have good coaching structures and are bringing their players through the age groups, with the ultimate end goal of having them play for the adult first teams. They want and expect referees to help them to teach the players what is right and what is wrong. Even at U13 level, i've run past coaches during a game and said "Player <x> is on thin ice" and their response has been "that's a lesson i'm willing to let him learn"

Reference to a team being 10 goals down, and not wanting to send the player off, i'd argue, its a lesson the player needs to learn and its probably better for them to learn it on a game that they have lost, rather than one that is 1-1 and its the difference between them winning and losing the game.

As a referee, you're not appointed to be popular, you are appointed to react to the actions of the players, make the appropriate decisions and apply the relevant sanctions.
 
Tino Best said:
It is a big debate on here at what age should you give out cards and I feel they should be in full use at 9 aside upwards. And in extreme circumstances used in 7 aside and under.
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Here in my part of Canada, it's mandated that there are NO cautions or sendings off until U11, when players move to 9v9. Before that, it's a discussion with the coach and the player is to be removed from the field of play.
 
Tino Best said:
By using cards you are protecting yourself and players although managers and parents may not agree. A red card challenge needs to dealt with. Dissent and offinabus will never go away with out it being dealt with. I know you are new to reffing but as you do more games you will feel more confident to give out cards. It is a big debate on here at what age should you give out cards and I feel they should be in full use at 9 aside upwards. And in extreme circumstances used in 7 aside and under. Do not get sucked into the you can't book kids. They need to learn the boundries in football as well as life.
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I think this is the key point. You might think you're doing the offending player a favour by being leniant, but you're also being unfair to the opponents by letting their opponent off a deserved punishment. The benefit of a red card is obvious, but if there's a yellow you didn't give, the player in question isn't walking the tightrope they otherwise would be, and can therefore take more risks they may not have taken otherwise.

Also, in the case of the examples in the original post, you've let yourself down by missing an easy opportunity to give relatively inconsequential red cards! The first one is always difficult - if you'd got that out the way with a player who's team was always going to lose, you would have felt much more comfortable when you came to give a difficult red!
 
I think it must be quite common for new referees to think it wise to ignore selected Laws, particularly when presiding over youth football. Motivated by a natural desire to retain respect from everyone, it's understandable to think this can be done by applying the Laws with discretion. Every experienced referee will know this tactic doesn't work and paradoxically is doomed to the failure it aims to avoid. The fast lane to reaching the same conclusion, is to ignore the advice and crack on :blackeye:
 
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You won't go wrong sticking to the LOTG. There is some areas where opinions may vary on fouls and misconduct (was it careless or reckless? Was it SPA? etc.) and the CR's opinion carries the day. I don't recommend altering the application of the LOTG based upon score, time of the match, age, etc. I normally work the older groups but in the 5 years I have been refereeing, my first straight RC was a U14 boys game. VC behind the play. My youngest was a U11 with 5 minutes to go in a game that was over score-wise. Some may balk at a RC to a U11 but how do you ignore a kid significantly larger than all others, whose team is losing by a large margin, finally gets a decent attack, then loses the ball (fairly). The ball is cleared to the other side of the field and 20 yards upfield when I see him turn away from the ball toward the nearest defender and deliberately and with force deliver a "volley" type crack with his leg across the nearest defender's shins. Sorry... has to be a VC RC. Imagine where he will be in 5 years if this is ignored?

I would suggest reflecting on the scenario you posted. It sounds like you let the DOGSO RC slide as the offender's team was ahead by 10. If you were a player/coach on the team getting crushed... how would a DOGSO red not being called against the other team sit with you? What if it was a 2 goal difference? Why does the score matter?

With the younger ones, I typically have taken the time to explain to the kid (excluding VC) what they did i.e. "your trip wasn't a bad one but they had a really promising attack when you tripped him. I'm not mad at you, but I have to give you a YC for it." It saves some tears and keeps them from melting down. The older players that I do nowadays... They know. Just give it and move on :). Even if they (or coach) gripes/argues/complains. Be steadfast. If you saw it and feel it deserves it... give it. They may whine now but you will see them again and they will respect you for it (possibly :) ) I have had a coach apologize to me over a year later after I dismissed him.
 
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Some very good advice on this thread. I was far too lenient and I agree with the assessment that I was probably doing it to garner respect from all concerned (at least subconsciously). I still find myself being naturally too lenient but I know when and I've thought about it afterwards and as the games go by you get better with it. To add my two penneth worth, I believe that I was arrogant in so far as I believed that because I'd played I could manage alot of situations that others couldn't. This was of course complete bo****ks but I think that's what i was subconsciously feeling.
 
There were games early on in my career where I did the same, maybe the odd yellow or red was downgraded for match control or ‘pity’ based on your scoreline scenario above. I did however learn quickly that you lose control of the match by doing this. Using your DOGSO example above, the league could be impacting by GD, something which would be affected by leaving the player on the pitch. What if 2 minutes later, the opposition centre half did the same thing? You’ve almost allowed that player a free DOGSO because the earlier one was unpunished.

The best thing to do is keep to the LOTG regardless of scoreline, especially if there’s no club marks to look at. There’s no benefit for your career going forward, you’ll just pick up bad habits. Start as you mean to go on
 
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