A&H

Nothing game where losing side get upset

L

ladbroke8745

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Red v blue.

Reds leading 4-2 with about 5 to go and blues start the moaning tactics.
First up I had midfielder who has not done anything all game supposedly get fouled. Nothing in it for me at all but it was in a dangerous attacking place so he got upset he didn't get anything. He runs back and fouls the red.
I blow up and he gets even more upset and makes the comment "you've given us nothing all game" in an aggressive manner. To slow the game down as it was getting a little hot by the blues, I stopped the restart from happening and asked to speak to said blue player. He refused to come over and shouted "if you want me, you come to me". I said loudly "that's not an option, I've asked you to me". Normally if a player is actively seen to come towards me I make a slow movement to them to save them a walk further and speed things up too. He again shouted " you want to talk you come to me".
So I said "final chance, come to me or I'll take a difference type of action". He shouted "do whatever you want". So I cautioned him for dissent by action (I saw this as disrespectful and showing me dissent). The captain pipes up and also said I've been biased and given nothing for them. Had a quiet chat with him saying if he had not acted as he did he wouldn't have got cautioned and reminded him that if he counted up the free kick count they'd likely to have had more so his theory was incorrect. He shut up and played on.
2 minutes later a team mate this time started saying I've given him nothing and, in his words, " been crap all game". So I cautioned him for dissent rather than sending him for OFFINABUS. He, at first, refused his name and refused to turn around for his number. Said anymore and itll be a 2nd yellow. His captain then told me his name.
Got on with game, with one further caution for red for PI.

After the game the keeper/manager comes to shake my hand and tells me that "you've not had your best game today. Missed everything for us but gave them everything. You had a shocker".
So I turned to him and said " look, you conceded 4, losing 4-2. Don't look at me for excuses when you've not had the best game either ". I then walked off.

Fed up with teams who criticise referees but never look at their own performances.
 
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ladbroke8745 said:
Fed up with teams who criticise referees but never look at their own performances.
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I absolutely understand.

About three weeks ago, for the first time in a long while, I actually snarked some comments back at a group of players that were really getting on my nerves. It was out of character for me, and I was very annoyed at myself for doing so. Even though what I said was rather trivial, and it wasn't entirely wrong, I shouldn't have done it. And I could see it had completely wound up one of the players at the end of it - the steam was still coming out of his ears in the clubhouse post-match, so I touched a nerve it seems.

There's no excuse on my part really, but I put it down to a few weeks of constant criticism getting the better of my patience.

I abhor teams that do this though, especially if they come out of the gates in whinge-mode and just don't get the hint when you punish the behaviour with cautions.

ladbroke8745 said:
I blow up and he gets even more upset and makes the comment "you've given us nothing all game" in an aggressive manner. To slow the game down as it was getting a little hot by the blues, I stopped the restart from happening and asked to speak to said blue player. He refused to come over and shouted "if you want me, you come to me". I said loudly "that's not an option, I've asked you to me". Normally if a player is actively seen to come towards me I make a slow movement to them to save them a walk further and speed things up too. He again shouted " you want to talk you come to me".
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Just out of the interest of discussion though; Do you think you could have handled this better, knowing that he would see this as a contentious decision, perhaps you could have asked for the free-kick to be taken on the whistle and then had a discreet chat with the player by running past him when getting into position instead? I'm not saying this would have worked or had been better, but perhaps it would cut off the public attempt to undermine your authority?
 
Personally when I want to talk to a player, before I ask him to come to me, I am already on the move, either to him or to an isolated location. That way I don't back myself to a corner if he refused to move. I can just continue my walk. He can have a little win (I haven't made a big issue out of it) and that may help him calm down. I can still caution him if he doesn't calm down but there is a better chance of me getting the big win for control if he calms down.

I can see your frustration in the OP and TBH it's justified. You can only have so much patience. But think about it a different way. Your goal of talking to the player was to calm things down but your approach had the reverse impact. In reflection you should think, well that approach has a chance of backfiring, should I change the approach to something with a better chance of success.

Once more thing I'd say is don't let a player/captain get away with calling you biased with just a warning. It's not too different to beeing called a cheat possibly not as an offensive word. For me it's a caution for dissent in that context.
 
I posted aboit this a few weeks ago. As referees we dont seem offended by, your biased ref, yet anyone says, your a cheat ref, we have the red card out before he has even finished his sentance.
Is there really ANY diff in the two?



I have a good reply for anyone who says you have given them nothing all game, you can say , yes, yes I have, and here is another one, a yellow card.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Red v blue.

Reds leading 4-2 with about 5 to go and blues start the moaning tactics.
First up I had midfielder who has not done anything all game supposedly get fouled. Nothing in it for me at all but it was in a dangerous attacking place so he got upset he didn't get anything. He runs back and fouls the red.
I blow up and he gets even more upset and makes the comment "you've given us nothing all game" in an aggressive manner. To slow the game down as it was getting a little hot by the blues, I stopped the restart from happening and asked to speak to said blue player. He refused to come over and shouted "if you want me, you come to me". I said loudly "that's not an option, I've asked you to me". Normally if a player is actively seen to come towards me I make a slow movement to them to save them a walk further and speed things up too. He again shouted " you want to talk you come to me".
So I said "final chance, come to me or I'll take a difference type of action". He shouted "do whatever you want". So I cautioned him for dissent by action (I saw this as disrespectful and showing me dissent). The captain pipes up and also said I've been biased and given nothing for them. Had a quiet chat with him saying if he had not acted as he did he wouldn't have got cautioned and reminded him that if he counted up the free kick count they'd likely to have had more so his theory was incorrect. He shut up and played on.
2 minutes later a team mate this time started saying I've given him nothing and, in his words, " been crap all game". So I cautioned him for dissent rather than sending him for OFFINABUS. He, at first, refused his name and refused to turn around for his number. Said anymore and itll be a 2nd yellow. His captain then told me his name.
Got on with game, with one further caution for red for PI.

After the game the keeper/manager comes to shake my hand and tells me that "you've not had your best game today. Missed everything for us but gave them everything. You had a shocker".
So I turned to him and said " look, you conceded 4, losing 4-2. Don't look at me for excuses when you've not had the best game either ". I then walked off.

Fed up with teams who criticise referees but never look at their own performances.
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Try not to take it so personally.
I have a real problem with referees demanding players do this, or that. In this instance you've ended up in a stand off with a player which could seriously affect match control in that you're attempting to exert authority and, in this case, failing. 21 other players, subs and management see this, and how you manage it could undermine control for the remainder. Ok. So its 85th minute so not much time left but what if there are 70 mins left. You are in for the toughest 70 mins of your life.
So, consider how you can manage these situations better:
Meet halfway in a neutral zone. Move towards the player, asking him to come to you. If its just a chat you can reassure him its just a talk e.g. "I just want a quick chat, then we can get going again".
Use the captain. If there is an initial reluctance/refusal, immediately grab the captain. You can make this look like you were going to use the captain all along. Make it his responsibility to get him over to you. You can encourage his support by telling the captain he has an opportunity to prevent a caution. This methods only gunna work with a reasonably ok captain.
Quiet word - have a quick word on the way past the player.
Do nothing - if this was a one off, you could have met it slide. Of course it depends on the publicness of the comment, the aggression, the manner in which it was delivered. But we have to accept that players, in a losing position will be come frustrated and sometimes say things in the heat of the moment and sometimes these are better left ignored. Remember this is very late in the game, which not much else has happened and is option can only really be used in a small number of circumstances.

The over riding message is dont put yourself in a position where players can undermine you nd your authority in a game. Change the approach and the whole scenario looks totally different, and maybe you get an easier last few minutes.
 
If am calling a player in or so on, and there is distance involved, maybe I also am creating a potential stand off, but rather than, come here, I say something clearly like "i will meet you half way", and I start going towards the player
My thinking is that this is a request any reasonable person can understand, not just the player I want, but anybody else in earshot, it gives an impression that as referee am approachable
Clearly nothing is text book but the over riding point is I do everything possible not to insist the player comes towards me.
 
I had an U17 player not want to meet me halfway. Giving the ‘you come to me etc’.
I said nice and clearly, and loudly, “we are already on one yellow, shall we make it 2?”
His captain had a few choice words for him which funnily enough resulted in him getting only 1 yellow lol
 
Its an isolated incident really, if you ask 100 players to come to you judging by previous experience 99 probably will even if they have a moan about it.
 
I do actively walk towards a player, maybe not meeting half way but I'm not the type of person to just stand there waiting in the exact spot I want him at.
He refused to budge and it was said in a tone that to me suggested he was on control so I stood my ground.
In my game yesterday I changed my wording to come on #, let's have a chat and it seemed to work. Didn't literally say for him to come to me, and did meet "halfway" in a more neutral area rather than surrounded by others and I think worked well for all concerned.
Thanks for the advice though guys as it does show other techniques can be best utilised.
 
Protocol dictates that we "isolate" a player before undertaking the disciplinary procedure, be that red or yellow card.

I fail to see how the referee walking towards the player in the first instance (especially one who refuses to come to you) helps that materialise.

I also disagree with @JamesL about putting yourself in a position to be undermined by a player. Any player who deliberately refuses to cooperate with the referee in the manner described has placed himself in that position and nobody else. He's already undermining the referee. Sure, be communicative, but the referee has total authority during the match. The players are there to play the football, not dictate what the referee can or can't do.

For me, the guy would have been getting shown a yellow (from whatever distance he preferred) and then warned loudly and clearly that he either cooperates with me in the spirit of the LOTG or he will be receiving a second yellow and can go home.

Also remember that ultimately, it's your whistle that has stopped play and it can't restart again until you decide it can. If he's holding the match up for the other 21 on the field, then I'd imagine peer pressure would normally get him to just shut up and do as he's bade. Normally. :)
 
I also sometimes do this when I want a word.......I make it clear "listen its just a chat its not a caution".....

my thinking is, when a player knows or thinks they are getting a card, they do not want a lecture too, nobody does tbh, they just want a card shown and get on with the game

the chat notion should spark a lightbulb in the players head that hey, ok, i will get my warning and walking towards the ref is worth it

again though, not everything works everytime for everybody
 
Ciley Myrus said:
yes, whatever works best. not saying that's what i always say but the point being, I try make it clear there will be (at that point!) no card involved
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Yes, same difference, just a phrase that i use
I stole it from a few players who said, 'it's just a talking to, right?' (when faced with a possible caution)
I prefer it to chat (or similar) as it's authoritative
 
Kes said:
Protocol dictates that we "isolate" a player before undertaking the disciplinary procedure, be that red or yellow card.

I fail to see how the referee walking towards the player in the first instance (especially one who refuses to come to you) helps that materialise.

I also disagree with @JamesL about putting yourself in a position to be undermined by a player. Any player who deliberately refuses to cooperate with the referee in the manner described has placed himself in that position and nobody else. He's already undermining the referee. Sure, be communicative, but the referee has total authority during the match. The players are there to play the football, not dictate what the referee can or can't do.

For me, the guy would have been getting shown a yellow (from whatever distance he preferred) and then warned loudly and clearly that he either cooperates with me in the spirit of the LOTG or he will be receiving a second yellow and can go home.

Also remember that ultimately, it's your whistle that has stopped play and it can't restart again until you decide it can. If he's holding the match up for the other 21 on the field, then I'd imagine peer pressure would normally get him to just shut up and do as he's bade. Normally. :)
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You can very easily still isolate a player walking towards them... you're meeting halfway, so that halfway can be, no, sorry, should be an isolated area.

If the player is already refusing to come you're well past the time I am speaking about. Its about being preventative and not putting you or the player in an avoidable situation by adopting a slightly different approach to engaging the player in what you want them to do. But its whats works best for you. If your style is authoritarian then my techniques that have served me well might not neccessarily work for you. I am offering alternatives to avoid and manage a scenario described in the OP.

Sometimes the game needs a bit of empathy from the referee. Sometimes it needs hard and fast rules. Every situation is different. But I certainly dont approach games with a comply or die attitude, I am happy to work with players, and adapt my style to achieve positive outcomes, where possible.
 
The compromise so that no one loses face is to take them away from the area towards a touchline or goal line. "over here please", then you are both moving towards the same spot rather than him coming to you or you going to him. This also means you can position yourself so that you can still see the majority of players.

Another tip is even if you are going to caution keep the card away until you are next to the player. It gives you more thinking time, and also means the player is less likely to be reluctant to come to you as he thinks it is just a talking to. Chances are they are going to have body language like Kevin the teenager anyway, so better that happens when he is close to you and you can control him than from 20 yards away.
 
With the meeting half way...

I got taught to try to intercept the player when appropriate. If you head quickly where they are moving, it’s much easier to then find the common ground. I’ve found it tough to do in big football... so often it’s a defender walking away back turned from where you are...all depends on your position... but in futsal it’s come up a lot, I used it twice yesterday, because you are side on it’s much essier to take a few steps on to meet a player as they retreat that needs a talking to.

This made me think about positioning and maybe in big football I could relax a bit and go to the spot of the foul a bit less.
 
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