RefSix

OFFINABUS from player to player...

#1
I know that dissent and offinabus is always in the opinion of the referee and subjective tolerance levels but how do you deal with OFFINABUS from player to player.

For example,

1)
A player shouts at you “ref you’re a f***ing idiot”. You’re going to send him off.
What do you do if you hear a player shout to another player “shut the f**k up, why are you even appealing for that you see you next Tuesday”?

2)
A player calls you a “f***ing cheat”. You’re going to send him off. What about if he says it to another player from the opposition?


I know I have gone to the extreme here with the swear words however it is just to illustrate the question. Just interested in each of your individual opinions on how you do with player to player abuse.
 
#3
Sorry, may have been misunderstood with what I was saying. Of course it does not have to include swearing, was just trying to illustrate the point,

Have heard of a player who advised another player that they were glad his child was disabled.

Hopefully you'd agree that is red card worthy.
This is nasty and 100% a red card, no doubt.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#4
I think you put it in a nutshell "offinabus is always in the opinion of the referee". It doesn't matter if its player to referee, another player, spectator etc.

While the words used are important, for me the context is even more important. The way it is said is part of it. Are the words and how it is said actually offensive or insulting? Is it meant as banter and taken and dealt with the same by the person it is intended for? Demography is another factor. What is insulting in one country/area may be the norm in another.

When its directed at you it is easy, you know when you are offended or insulted. But at others, you should be able to read reactions to gauge genuineness and have a good feel for the atmosphere of the game and expectations. I am afraid there is no easy answer.
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#5
With things like this, rightly or wrongly, I go off player reaction. If said to me, then obviously it's my reaction to it and I'll be reaching for the red. If I hear and see it said by one player to another and the player just verbally gives it back (as happens most of the time) then I'll just monitor it and take no action outside of maybe a couple of whistle blasts and a word with both individuals. If the "insulted" player reacts to what has been said to them and appeals to me then I've been given no choice but to issue the red for OFFINABUS. :cool:
 

The Referee

Well-Known Member
#6
Choose the option that helps your match control. If a player has been aggressive all match, squaring up/provoking the opposition, and then uses OFFINABUS language to an opponent, this is your chance to get him off the pitch.
If it's just a one-off offense, depending on the severity, you might want to try and calm him down/manage him and keep him on the pitch.
 
#8
It is very much down to context. Several players who I built up a great relationship with over the years used to swear at me knowing it wouldn't be a problem. "That was f'ing **** ref" said with a huge smile on the face would just get a response like "About as **** as that pass you just made". Say the same thing with a snarl and you are walking.
 

Viking

Q-1994, Re-qualified 2019 Worcestershire UK
#9
U12 game. Player shouts to the opposition's gk, 'kick it back fatso'. It is heard by all at the game. Automatic red or do some refs see a stepped approach and a warning?
 
#10
U12 game. Player shouts to the opposition's gk, 'kick it back fatso'. It is heard by all at the game. Automatic red or do some refs see a stepped approach and a warning?
Good question. Context...U12 can feel big, or small... if it's a needly tense game and the player in question is obviously aware of his/her actions, then red.
In a friendlier game, with a player that thinks they are joking, I could imagine taking the player over to near the benches, giving some hairdryer and a yellow and make sure both teams understand it won' be tolerated.
 

Trip

Well-Known Member
#11
Agreed. I think player reaction is a big part.
In general I think this is reasonable, but I'd be wary of using that as a benchmark for racist or homophobic abuse.

I once had a captain shout at his own defence "Have we all turned ****ing gay?". Let's say none of the players he was shouting at appeared bothered about his use of that term in a derogatory sense. A gay player who is offended is unlikely to say so. I actually caught myself hesitating to take action in case the players inferred that I was gay.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#12
In general I think this is reasonable, but I'd be wary of using that as a benchmark for racist or homophobic abuse.

I once had a captain shout at his own defence "Have we all turned ****ing gay?". Let's say none of the players he was shouting at appeared bothered about his use of that term in a derogatory sense. A gay player who is offended is unlikely to say so. I actually caught myself hesitating to take action in case the players inferred that I was gay.
May I ask what action you took?

I had a similar incident where at the time there was no reaction. I couldn't see who said it (from the bench) and given there was no reaction I just had a general stern talk to the bench. Turns out my dealing with it was wrong. There actually were people offended but kept quiet. I had to report it to the league after they asked me to and the culprit ended up writing a letter of apology to the opponent team and club.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#13
U12 game. Player shouts to the opposition's gk, 'kick it back fatso'. It is heard by all at the game. Automatic red or do some refs see a stepped approach and a warning?
To expand on @santa sangria 's post, why context is important, what if it was said to the own keeper? What if the keeper was the fittest person in the team (not fat at all) and had a laugh about it. What if the keeper is very over weight and gets angry and charges at the offender? What if that is his nick name and he takes it as a 'complement' :). Too many factors involved. Same words can go anywhere from a quiet talk on the run to a red card depending on context.

But as sanata said, in the most common context, it will likely be a yellow card for USB with a good talking to.
 
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Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#14
In general I think this is reasonable, but I'd be wary of using that as a benchmark for racist or homophobic abuse.

I once had a captain shout at his own defence "Have we all turned ****ing gay?". Let's say none of the players he was shouting at appeared bothered about his use of that term in a derogatory sense. A gay player who is offended is unlikely to say so. I actually caught myself hesitating to take action in case the players inferred that I was gay.
Reminds me of the recent Peter Beardsley case
The panel found that there was no evidence that Beardsley is racist (quote "not a racist in the sense of being ill-disposed to persons on grounds of their race or ethnicity"), but he did use racist phraseology towards players
This use of the term 'gay' may have been similar. It boils down to education and culture in football. The players need to realise that this flippant language could get them into serious hot water
 
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Nij

Active Member
#15
Reminds me of the recent Peter Beardsley case
The panel found that there was no evidence that Beardsley is racist (quote "not a racist in the sense of being ill-disposed to persons on grounds of their race or ethnicity"), but he did use racist phraseology towards players
This use of the term 'gay' may have been similar. It boils down to education and culture in football. The players need to realise that this flippant language, could get them into serious hot water
Not "could", "should". There's simply no place for using such descriptors as insults or in a derogatory way.
 

Viking

Q-1994, Re-qualified 2019 Worcestershire UK
#16
Good question. Context...U12 can feel big, or small... if it's a needly tense game and the player in question is obviously aware of his/her actions, then red.
In a friendlier game, with a player that thinks they are joking, I could imagine taking the player over to near the benches, giving some hairdryer and a yellow and make sure both teams understand it won' be tolerated.
Context is interesting. I think just saying Fatso very loudly in the way he did, was meant in an insulting abusive manner. It's just not a very nice thing to say. But, and this goes against my usual policy of wandering towards a red, it was with 1 min left, his side was being beaten and they clearly weren't used to it. I ended up calling him over and in the 5 seconds it took, he managed to do enough to allow me to give him a yellow for dissent and a sin bin. At that age it's all about educating for me. Hopefully he'll learn not to act like that in future. More interestingly, the asst coach said he'd expected a red for the shout.
 
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