A&H

OFFINABUS

JBeil

JBeil

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
Just to clarify, does the use of offensive, insulting or abusing language towards anyone on the pitch count? If a player calls someone in the crowd a lady's part, or calls someone from the opposing team an effing so-and-so, do I still have to show a red card? Does it have to be an instant red, or can we use our judgement?
 
The Referee Store
Hard one to call. The LOTG say that a player should be dismissed for 'using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures'. If that fits the bill, then you've certainly got a case. I think it's one where you often have to exercise a certain amount of judgement though (and there's not necessarily a right answer) - I've had players in the past swear at someone in the crowd, only for it to turn out to be their best mate and it was said jokingly. I know the LOTG don't mention context but I don't think many would be asking for a red in that case. It's a hard balance to find but I think you can usually tell by how the word/gesture is delivered, at least at a lower level.
 
The lady part word is a red line for most referees, not all.... there isn't a hard and fast absolute must do to anything.......
 
alexgr said:
Hard one to call. The LOTG say that a player should be dismissed for 'using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures'. If that fits the bill, then you've certainly got a case. I think it's one where you often have to exercise a certain amount of judgement though (and there's not necessarily a right answer) - I've had players in the past swear at someone in the crowd, only for it to turn out to be their best mate and it was said jokingly. I know the LOTG don't mention context but I don't think many would be asking for a red in that case. It's a hard balance to find but I think you can usually tell by how the word/gesture is delivered, at least at a lower level.
Click to expand...

I'll quibble a bit with the red. what Law 12 sanctions is language (or action) that is offensive, insulting, or abusive. None of those words have meaning in a vacuum. The context determines whether certain words or phrases are in fact offensive, insulting, or abusive. So I think you are being 100% consistent with the Laws when you consider context.
 
JBeil said:
Just to clarify, does the use of offensive, insulting or abusing language towards anyone on the pitch count? If a player calls someone in the crowd a lady's part, or calls someone from the opposing team an effing so-and-so, do I still have to show a red card? Does it have to be an instant red, or can we use our judgement?
Click to expand...
What part of a lady was it? Could it have been a reference to a free roaming domesticated animal, or even a reference to someone who gets frightened too easily? ;) :D

On a more serious note, all you have to decide is if something said is offensive or insulting. The words used, tone, aggression, loudness, lead up to incident, who it's said to, temperature of the game, etc are all part of your considerations when deciding offensiveness and none of those factors on their own would rule a red card in or out.
 
For me, at an under-age match - audible swearing involving lady parts or general coitus will be red (unless of course these are words which slip out on being injured, in which case I would counsel the player he ought to find some more modest ejaculation).

At an over-age match, those same words, with respect to offensiveness, will be considered on certain principles. Those revolve around who is at the ground (are there lots of children present), where is the ground (is it near a school or an oldies home or some such?) and the volume of the utterance.
With respect to insult and abuse, well with respect to the particular words we're discussing these are determined along the same lines as any other words - is it insulting (and intended to be insulting) and is it abusive (and intended to be abusive).
 
JBeil said:
Just to clarify, does the use of offensive, insulting or abusing language towards anyone on the pitch count? If a player calls someone in the crowd a lady's part, or calls someone from the opposing team an effing so-and-so, do I still have to show a red card? Does it have to be an instant red, or can we use our judgement?
Click to expand...
The answer is, 'potentially' anyone
 
You don’t have to give an instant red, you could take him to one side, explain that you don’t appreciate his words and for that you’re dismissing him...make him stew a bit! 🤔
 
A player swearing at an other player can be classed as AA, in context or red for OFFINABUS. you have to be there and hear it.
 
Here was an "insta-red"... Player's team losing. Coach already tossed for irresponsible behavior about 3 minutes earlier. It has been a heated match with repeated dissent by losing team. 5 YC given (3/2) thus far when losing team player angry over a throw-in call decides (while part of a crowd dissenting) to yell at me that "you're racist" multiple times. Loud enough that it was likely heard at least 30 yards away. Yep, immediate RC.
 
Dillbot17 said:
When Zaha was sarcastically clapping the referee the other day he got shown a 2nd yellow insted of a straight red. Do you think this is an OFFINABUS offence or a dissent offence?
Click to expand...
Dissent........what could possibly be offensive, insulting or abusive about hand clapping....
 
The now-discontinued USSF "Advice to Referees" document, though very much of a curate's egg for me (in the modern sense) had what I thought was one of their reasonably good sections on judging OFFINABUS. It went as follows:

"The referee should judge offensive, insulting, or abusive language according to its content (the specific words or actions used), the extent to which the language can be heard by others beyond the immediate vicinity of the player, and whether the language is directed at officials, opponents, or teammates. In other words, the referee must watch for language that is Personal, Public, or Provocative. In evaluating language as misconduct, the referee must take into account the particular circumstances in which the actions occurred and deal reasonably with language that was clearly the result of a momentary emotional outburst.

Referees must take care not to inject purely personal opinions as to the nature of the language when determining a course of action. The referee's primary focus must be on the effective management of the match and the players in the context of the overall feel for the Spirit of the Game."
 
Peter Grove said:
The referee's primary focus must be on the effective management of the match and the players in the context of the overall feel for the Spirit of the Game.
Click to expand...
I am a believer in this in it's true meaning. But I also believe many top level referees use this as an excuse to not apply clear application of laws. Its contributing to the rise of a toxic culture in all levels.
 
one said:
I am a believer in this in it's true meaning. But I also believe many top level referees use this as an excuse to not apply clear application of laws. Its contributing to the rise of a toxic culture in all levels.
Click to expand...


Totally agree.
I think though if we look at pyramid wherever we are, its prob the same, the higher up we go, the less likely we punish offensive..
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Totally agree.
I think though if we look at pyramid wherever we are, its prob the same, the higher up we go, the less likely we punish offensive..
Click to expand...

You mean like the world cup where we saw at least a couple of incidents with players screaming F-you at the ref from close range with no sanction?

I completely agree--the willingness of referees at the top to take abuse trickles down in player expectations.

When I referee, I try to consider not only what I can put up with, but what the Game (or next week's referee) needs from me in terms of setting appropriate standards. Especially as I know that in many of the games I do the next referee will have far less experience and ability to manage misbehavior.
 
With respect to OFFINABUS, I firmly believe that elite referees act in unison with their extreme leniency because they're all following equivalent instructions from their employers
If a lone wolf deviates from the crowd, they will stand out and be dropped from the pack
These referees won't want to tolerate frothing expletives from superstars at arms length, but they don't want to lose their jobs more
We then lambaste the likes of AT (and his team) for taking it from Ashley Barnes, but AT will continue to be appointed to top games for doing so
 
Last edited:
Big Cat said:
With respect to OFFINABUS, I firmly believe that elite referees act in unison with their extreme leniency because they're all following equivalent instructions from their employers
If a lone wolf deviates from the crowd, they will stand out and be dropped from the pack
These referees won't want to tolerate frothing expletives from superstars at arms length, but they don't want to lose their jobs more
We then lambaste the likes of AT (and his team) for taking it from Ashley Barnes, but AT will continue to be appointed to top games for doing so
Click to expand...


my stomach still churns at that incident. If am observing grass roots on Saturday and a player does a Barnes to my referee, I expect that player to be dismissed. Great if they do. If they however don't, and we open up the discussion, when they ask "why did Taylor not send off Barnes", the only thing I can really say is, because its ok to shout f off, f off, f you and swing your arms at a match official at the top level. And, that does not sit comfy with me
Of course, we side step it, we use a smoke screen, we say, well, that's a different level, he is managing things, we need to concentrate on your game today, but, my new ref has a point, and I am then nearly as guilty as Taylor, and so the cycle continues
I am open to others thoughts. But if the powers really care for the game, then, nevermind "dropping" the Liverpool West Ham lino for an offside error, Taylors actions, or lack of, bring the entire referee movement into disrepute. And, to be in that position of power (Spiderman!) and abuse it, is sickening. With great power comes responsibility. (Spiderman!) Some folk, either in the offices, or on the park, abused theirs that day.
 
Redster said:
For me, at an under-age match - audible swearing involving lady parts or general coitus will be red (unless of course these are words which slip out on being injured, in which case I would counsel the player he ought to find some more modest ejaculation).

At an over-age match, those same words, with respect to offensiveness, will be considered on certain principles. Those revolve around who is at the ground (are there lots of children present), where is the ground (is it near a school or an oldies home or some such?) and the volume of the utterance.
With respect to insult and abuse, well with respect to the particular words we're discussing these are determined along the same lines as any other words - is it insulting (and intended to be insulting) and is it abusive (and intended to be abusive).
Click to expand...

Sorry but your first sentence is the most Alan Partridge thing that ive ever heard!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top