A&H

Offside rule changes

W

willt2004

Newref
Level 8 Referee
Wenger is proposing that from next season you are onside if any part of the body that you can score with is even with the 2nd last defender. So , you could be a good 2 foot past the defender but your trailing leg may keep you onside.

For me, this creates exactly the same problems. It will still be marginal as to whether they are even and will be even harder for officials who don’t use VAR to judge offside.

Article below

:https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....e-wenger-proposes-change-to-offside-rule/amp/
 
The Referee Store
It would mean more goals.
And it would make fast on the shoulder strikers possibly be more valuable.

Byt yeah won’t fix the Varse;)
 
The "daylight" proposal has been around for a long time, but never gotten much traction.

IIRC, it was the early '80s when even became on instead of off. This has been an ongoing concept since then. It clearly would change nothing about the VAR question of inches.

I'm also dubious that it is a change that would make the game better. Seems to me it would just encourage long balls and running rather than development. or it would encourage defenses to bunker more to avoid that. I don't see either making the game better.
 
I think you need to be really careful with changes that "help attackers", as @socal lurker rightly points out, as soon as you make it too easy for attackers then defenders will counter by sitting on their own 6 yard line.

One of the best things VAR has done is encouraged defenders to push up, knowing that they can "trust" the VAR to bail them out if the AR fails to give an offside he should. Any change that undermines this will cause defences to drop, the only question is how much by.
 
GraemeS said:
I think you need to be really careful with changes that "help attackers", as @socal lurker rightly points out, as soon as you make it too easy for attackers then defenders will counter by sitting on their own 6 yard line.

One of the best things VAR has done is encouraged defenders to push up, knowing that they can "trust" the VAR to bail them out if the AR fails to give an offside he should. Any change that undermines this will cause defences to drop, the only question is how much by.
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I don’t know if you’ve seen Liverpool’s crazy high line... I think that is more to do with pace and confidence than the prospect of getting bailed out by Stockley pk
 
santa sangria said:
I don’t know if you’ve seen Liverpool’s crazy high line... I think that is more to do with pace and confidence than the prospect of getting bailed out by Stockley pk
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That's actually exactly what I was thinking of (they were on the edge of the opponent's centre circle for most of the Atleti match on Tues!). I certainly think you're right that they pace of the CB's is a factor, but I'm sure they've moved up significantly over where they tended to set last season and I'm sure confidence that if they do their offisde trap jobs correctly they know they'll be rewarded for it must be at least a minor factor.
 
I think that whatever perceived problem there is with these marginal offside VAR decisions is quite clearly a problem with how the VAR system is being implemented, not with the law itself.

Changing the law to fix a problem with VAR is just fundamentally the wrong approach if you ask me.
 
GraemeS said:
That's actually exactly what I was thinking of (they were on the edge of the opponent's centre circle for most of the Atleti match on Tues!). I certainly think you're right that they pace of the CB's is a factor, but I'm sure they've moved up significantly over where they tended to set last season and I'm sure confidence that if they do their offisde trap jobs correctly they know they'll be rewarded for it must be at least a minor factor.
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I think that VAR makes the most difference with offsides when players are crossing, as they are the hardest to spot, and getting the correction decision on field relies on using e.g. the flash lag effect and perfect timing. So, Tony Adams would love VAR. Maybe...

Actually the more I think about this, it goes both ways. You can say exactly the same about forwards... playing tight, or timing runs, in the knowledge that they won't be falsely flagged offside.

So, I actually BS on all this, especially Liverpool!

Let's ask Jurgen;)
 
Peter Grove said:
I think that whatever perceived problem there is with these marginal offside VAR decisions is quite clearly a problem with how the VAR system is being implemented, not with the law itself.

Changing the law to fix a problem with VAR is just fundamentally the wrong approach if you ask me.
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I'm not totally sure I've convinced by that - this offside issue is a great example of how the laws of football have previously relied on a bit of "fluffiness" to match the laws up with what football expects, and the general tenet of "the referee is always right" has covered up that fluffiness.

What VAR's done is exposed the fact that the laws aren't the same as what the vast majority of the public think they are. Now as referees, we've long known that ("last man", "high boot", the general definition of what "interfering" is and isn't at offside), but what we're now seeing is that if you introduce a system that is obliged to referee to the letter of the law rather than the spirit that we had last season, you end up with a significantly different sport. We can extend this further - we all know you'd see some very different matches if the laws of dissent and OFFINABUS were applied to the letter of the law at the top level, but we know the expectation is that those situations are managed in line with what football expects.

But as you say you've now got two options - change the law so that it matches up with the expectation and VAR can apply the law without having to bend, or change how VAR works to allow a great degree of operator discretion. I do think we're more likely to end up with the latter, but I suspect we'll go through a few stages of the former first, and it's possible one of them will stick.
 
GraemeS said:
I'm not totally sure I've convinced by that - this offside issue is a great example of how the laws of football have previously relied on a bit of "fluffiness" to match the laws up with what football expects, and the general tenet of "the referee is always right" has covered up that fluffiness.

What VAR's done is exposed the fact that the laws aren't the same as what the vast majority of the public think they are. Now as referees, we've long known that ("last man", "high boot", the general definition of what "interfering" is and isn't at offside), but what we're now seeing is that if you introduce a system that is obliged to referee to the letter of the law rather than the spirit that we had last season, you end up with a significantly different sport. We can extend this further - we all know you'd see some very different matches if the laws of dissent and OFFINABUS were applied to the letter of the law at the top level, but we know the expectation is that those situations are managed in line with what football expects.

But as you say you've now got two options - change the law so that it matches up with the expectation and VAR can apply the law without having to bend, or change how VAR works to allow a great degree of operator discretion. I do think we're more likely to end up with the latter, but I suspect we'll go through a few stages of the former first, and it's possible one of them will stick.
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Very well put, agree with every word.
 
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