RefSix

Offside?

#2
No. Not offside. Flagged to early.
Defender clearly plays the ball before the attacker is close.
In mitigation, it’s far side and not a game changer, but it’s a mistake IMHO.
 

es1

RefChat Addict
#3
It absolutely should be offside.

As the first touch is a deliberate play though it resets offside so in line with to current laws and interpretation I don't think it is.
 

cwyeary

RefChat Addict
#4
The description of the video shows the current interpretations given to referees.

UEFA and FIFA have though stated that situations like this are OFFSIDE OFFENCES as the ball is not played to the attacker, but the attacker comes from an offside position to challenge the defender (very shortly) after the defender has "taken hold of the ball" or "controlled the ball".

So by the meaning of the Law:
- NO OFFSIDE when the defender plays the ball to the attacker (deliberate play)
- OFFSIDE when the defender takes hold of the ball and is then in a very short moment challenged by the attacker (who was already going to challenge him for the ball before he played it).
OFFSIDE is correctly called in this example.
So UEFA and FIFA would say this is offside. Now of course this type of situation opens up the always lovely debate of what a deliberate play of the ball is and does the description above match the text of the LOTG. But since the clip was from a UEFA match then the UEFA interpretations apply and they say there's a difference between a defender controlling the ball and being immediately challenged and the defender deliberately playing the ball which then goes to an attacker.
 
#6
I think you can look at this two ways. On the one hand, it could be seen as the scenario where:
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.
However for me, I'm not sure this is truly applicable - as I see it this player has not received the ball from the opponent, they have gone and taken the ball from the opponent.

The other possibility is that by coming and taking the ball in the way he does, this could fall under the category of:
interfering with an opponent by [...] challenging an opponent for the ball
In such cases I think it's partly a question of timing - how long has the opponent had the ball (and what actions have they undertaken since they received it) before the offside-positioned player challenges them? In this case (in my opinion) the challenge occurs so quickly after the initial touch by the defender that it can be seen as a challenge for the ball.

As far as I'm concerned, this is more of an offside offence for interfering with an opponent than it is a player simply receiving the ball from a deliberate play by an opponent.
 
#7
Hmm... does this clip come down to how interpret the first touch?

I think the first touch is clearly control and a deliberate play and the tackle happens after so much time it can’t be offside.

Uefa’s explanation of ”controlled the ball” is unfortunate as it is not detailed and is not the LotG... but I infer they are saying the second touch is the act of control and the tackle then comes so quick it’s offside...?

Interesting
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#8
I agree with Peter here. The word receives is important. Juts because the defender has controlled the ball (deliberate play) this doesn't "reset" offside straight away imo.
I do think however that the flag goes early, as he doesn't actually get to the point of challenging for the ball. He isn't far away though so I suppose the AR can be excused.
Hmm... does this clip come down to how interpret the first touch?

I think the first touch is clearly control and a deliberate play and the tackle happens after so much time it can’t be offside.

Uefa’s explanation of ”controlled the ball” is unfortunate as it is not detailed and is not the LotG... but I infer they are saying the second touch is the act of control and the tackle then comes so quick it’s offside...?

Interesting
You need to take the whole statement into account:
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who
deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is
not considered to have gained an advantage.

He isn't receiving the ball he is taking it ie challenging for it. That is an offside offence. Imo merely controlling it does not negate the offside offence.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#9
Agree this should be offside as per explaination of the video and Peter's reference to the wording.

But I also think you are giving too much credit to IFAB for deliberately using the word 'receive' to mean a situation like this is offside. I think it's just a fluke that it's worked out that way. ;)
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#10
These discussions arise from the book not explicitly describing the scenario discussed. I'd assert that this scenario is implicitly onside, although I'd probably raise the flag and give the 'expected' decision
 
#11
Just to add... similar situations to this were not offside the last time I was in a classroom session a year ago ;) But I'll check with my people next time I get the chance.
 
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