Player Arguing & One Holding The Other By The Shirt

[Graham B]

A bit of advice regarding an incident at a pre-season friendly this week, adult open age.

Final few seconds of the game (literally last 30 secs) 8-3 score, overall well behaved game. A player was tackled and looked fair to me, so no whistle. The player was annoyed he was bested and later transpired that maybe he did catch him slightly but not recognised by me. We are now approx 1 minute later, right in the final few seconds, ball out for a throw-in and the player decides to confront the other player about the challenge previously not given, about 50 yards from me. I spot it run over blowing my whistle. As I get there, there are now 3 or 4 players from each team there and of the 2 involved one has grabbed the other by the shirt. I ordered the blue team to go one way and white them the other and said to one of the players holding the other (standing very close trying to prise them apart) to let go and come with me. inititally he didn’t let go. I said, ' come on let go now that's enough and step aside' and put my arm between them and blew my whistle hard again. They moved aside and things calmed down. It was now end if game anyway so I whistled the end and encouraged both sides to move away and calm down. They did calm down and as usual most player shook my hand and each other's and the incident ended.

Talking to the coaches and players the general feeling was the 2 players were out of order and they were disappointed in them. Apologies transpired fron one of the players in the incident, the other then decided it was my fault for allowing the foul to go unchallenged. I apologised for not being perfect in your eyes, I will simply call it as I see it to the best if my ability. I may not get everything right everytime, but there is no excuse for aggressive behaviour, and you need to learn to stay calm. As this is a friendly out of season and everyone has calmed down I have no report to hand in. Had this been a league game there would have been an incident report and red cards. Please learn to calm down. We shook hands and went our separate ways. I had a brief chat with coaches and one player was referred to as a 'Jack Russell and a bit fiesty, he's niffed off because we were getting hammered'.

I wanted to share this with you. What I have learned here is to keep striving to be as accurate as possible.I possibly positioned myself in harms way next to these players, but no one was hurt or punched, just a shirt pulling - Thank goodness.

If anyone has any advice please share it with me.

Thank you for reading.

All the best
Graham

 

[one]

With a matter of seconds left, there is a challenge, one player expects a free kick and another to play on. In some circumstances, and OP is one of them, I blow full time. They would both think they would have had it their way if it wasn't time and walk away satisfied. It's has worked for my in many occasions.

 

[Graham B]

I understand what you mean. It's because of the little time left that added to the feeling from the player. Cheers for the advice. Kindest regards Graham

 

[FirsFox40]

Out of curiosity, you say "there would have been [...] red cards."

What for?

Did you say that to them, or just to us here?

 

[Graham B]

Yes, I did say it to the players after all was calm. Red card would have been for aggressive behaviour. First player threatening second player and second player grabbing a first player and threatening(and not letting go) isn't acceptable to me and would be a red card. Yellow (or Sin bin had the game continued; we were at the end anyway) would seem too light to me. Note, this would be after the game ended, too.

Please let me know the correct procedure as you are an experienced referee and can give me advice so I can ensure I follow rules correctly and keep everyone safe. The players later were calm and understanding to move on and accepting to what I said respectfully I would say too in the end. I just wanted them not to react in this way again particularly during the season for everyone's benefit. This was Pre season so no cards no report, but useful for me to learn appropriate action, response and procedures. Your advice will be gratefully received. I hope this makes sense ok. I look forward to hearing from you. Kindest regards Graham

 

[CaptainsPlease]

You should still be issuing cards and reporting misconduct in pre-season games.
'Aggressive behaviour' isn't a reason to send off a player. It would need to specifically be either 'violent conduct' or 'using offensive, insulting or abusive language or actions'. If a player's behaviour is aggressive but not meeting those definitions then you should caution them (yellow card) for unsporting behaviour.

By the way 'violent conduct' means a player using or attempting to use excessive force or brutality against any person when not challenging for the ball, regardless of whether contact is made. Includes any deliberate strike on a person's head or face with the hand or arm if the force used was not negligible.

 

[RefereeX]

Yes, I did say it to the players after all was calm. Red card would have been for aggressive behaviour. First player threatening second player and second player grabbing a first player and threatening(and not letting go) isn't acceptable to me and would be a red card. Yellow (or Sin bin had the game continued; we were at the end anyway) would seem too light to me. Note, this would be after the game ended, too.

Please let me know the correct procedure as you are an experienced referee and can give me advice so I can ensure I follow rules correctly and keep everyone safe. The players later were calm and understanding to move on and accepting to what I said respectfully I would say too in the end. I just wanted them not to react in this way again particularly during the season for everyone's benefit. This was Pre season so no cards no report, but useful for me to learn appropriate action, response and procedures. Your advice will be gratefully received. I hope this makes sense ok. I look forward to hearing from you. Kindest regards Graham

From what you say, it sounds more like a cautionable offence than a red card, and certainly not a sin bin.

Sin bins are for dissent only.
Adopting an aggressive attitude (which this sounds like it fits best, although hard to be certain without seeing it) is a caution.
Violent conduct is a red card.

If you deem it to be violent conduct, then you're well within your rights to issue a red card, but you may need to be careful with the way you word it. Aggressive behaviour (or adopting an aggressive attitude is only a caution)

 

[Graham B]

Thank you for the clarification for the terminology and advice, appreciated.

Looking on IFAB I would say they would both fall into Red Card for these reasons.

IFAB say Red Card Reasons..
1. Violent conduct
2. Using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s)

I will remember the terminology for future and also ensure I submit reports, didn’t realise it was still a requirement for friendly games out of season. Hopefully, nothing like this happens again, but procedures and knowledge is essential to me. No one hurt, quick incident dissolved, so all in all a good learning experience for me for the future to get sound advice from people like yourself. Thank you.

Just want everyone to be respectful and have a great game. All good learning curves for me.

Thank you for your time and advice.

All the best
Graham

 

[JamesL]

TBF as far as players are concerned aggressive behaviour/attitude isn't actually a specific offence. The FA have it as a caution code but that's only in England.

The actual offence is going to be Unsporting Behaviour.

I can't really add much to what others have said here... OP sounds like classic caution each for instigator and retaliator.

Certainly doesnt read like violent conduct.

Main area of concern in the OP is this bit.

As I get there, there are now 3 or 4 players from each team there and of the 2 involved one has grabbed the other by the shirt. I ordered the blue team to go one way and white them the other and said to one of the players holding the other (standing very close trying to prise them apart) to let go and come with me.

It is not your job to prise players apart. You are putting yourself at unnecessary risk of getting clobbered yourself and you lose sight of everything else going on around it. Imagine missing a punch or headbutt because you were focussed on two players pushing and shoving.

Use the whistle, use the voice, use your presence to try and calm it down, but above all else use your eyes. Clock the two main protagonists and try to see what's going on. Once it calms, as it will, it always does, then calmly administer whatever sanctions/actions are needed.

 

[Graham B]

TBF as far as players are concerned aggressive behaviour/attitude isn't actually a specific offence. The FA have it as a caution code but that's only in England.

The actual offence is going to be Unsporting Behaviour.

I can't really add much to what others have said here... OP sounds like classic caution each for instigator and retaliator.

Certainly doesnt read like violent conduct.

Main area of concern in the OP is this bit.

It is not your job to prise players apart. You are putting yourself at unnecessary risk of getting clobbered yourself and you lose sight of everything else going on around it. Imagine missing a punch or headbutt because you were focussed on two players pushing and shoving.

Use the whistle, use the voice, use your presence to try and calm it down, but above all else use your eyes. Clock the two main protagonists and try to see what's going on. Once it calms, as it will, it always does, then calmly administer whatever sanctions/actions are needed.

Great advice. Stand near to whistle, talk with authority as usual, let it calm., give appropriate action, cautions, Got it Thank you . All the best Graham

 

[OldNavyRef]

Good post Graham.

I am not sure how experienced you are. But I think if you sent the players off for pulling at each other (violent conduct) and giving each other a mouthful (OFFINABUS), you would probably surprise most around you which isn't something you want to do (unless you overheard something particularly hateful).

Players, swear, threaten and insult each other most games I do. If I hear a threat, I just grip them and have a word (excluding extreme stuff).

Based on it just being a flash of anger and no real excessive force used (shirt pulling is pretty routine), I would just lean towards cautions, or just ending the game (which you did).

As others have said, I've definitely done it, seen two players grabbing and just immediately pulling them apart. But a big no no. If you get punched, people can accuse you of being in amongst it. Last thing you want is to be in a disciplinary meeting and have people saying you were grabbing at players before you're hit.

Also the hot tempered 'jack russell' might not take kindly to being man handled on a different day. Remember he sees you as the guy who thinks him getting tackled hard is acceptable and he will have taken it personally.

 

[Graham B]

Good post Graham.

I am not sure how experienced you are. But I think if you sent the players off for pulling at each other (violent conduct) and giving each other a mouthful (OFFINABUS), you would probably surprise most around you which isn't something you want to do (unless you overheard something particularly hateful).

Players, swear, threaten and insult each other most games I do. If I hear a threat, I just grip them and have a word (excluding extreme stuff).

Based on it just being a flash of anger and no real excessive force used (shirt pulling is pretty routine), I would just lean towards cautions, or just ending the game (which you did).

As others have said, I've definitely done it, seen two players grabbing and just immediately pulling them apart. But a big no no. If you get punched, people can accuse you of being in amongst it. Last thing you want is to be in a disciplinary meeting and have people saying you were grabbing at players before you're hit.

Also the hot tempered 'jack russell' might not take kindly to being man handled on a different day. Remember he sees you as the guy who thinks him getting tackled hard is acceptable and he will have taken it personally.

Great advice , thank you for taking the time. Good learning curve for me. I will stand near, blow my whistle, talk with authority to split up the incident, let it calm and have word/caution (if necessary depending upon severity). I will not get myself seen as involved for my safety and remove any possibility of disaplinary against me. Got it. I hope everyone's advice helps others as well as me. All the best Graham