Player shouting at crowd

[santa sangria]

Agree with you @JamesL, although think an issue is the generational divide - there are some words/phrases/terms that would have been acceptable a decade or so ago that someone of my age wouldn't even think of using now, but as we've seen on this thread, there is a different attitude to them by some. This is where some form of guidance may come in handy I think.

In my region every ref has a (short) session on "respect" and discrimmination. We did an interesting exercise where we talked through all kinds of positive and negative experiences around different types of diversity (gender, sexual, cultural, racial, social, age, ability etc.).

 

[alexgr]

@santa sangria An interesting concept, I know it would be met with moans and groans here but does at least provide a useful insight and guidance. Do you think it's useful?

 

[JH]

To an extent I agree, but I personally believe that as a referee, we have a duty to provide a space that is safe for all players - not just physically, but also mentally. Referees allowing homophobic/sexist/racist language to go unpunished does not do this. It's not about offence, it's common human decency IMO. Players have the ultimate responsibility but any ref who turns a blind eye is just as bad.

The issues you mention aren't the ones generally up for debate, I think most can agree they are deserving of a send off.

 

[santa sangria]

@santa sangria An interesting concept, I know it would be met with moans and groans here but does at least provide a useful insight and guidance. Do you think it's useful?

Yes, of course. And very useful whether you are a beginner, vet, higher, lower, ambitious, hobbyist, and of whatever cultural/racial background. We have a real mix of backgrounds in the ref pool... quite amazing diversity.... and universally cited in the positive list.. of course plenty of footy stuff in the minus columns too.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Out of interest in your experience do these referees normally fall within the more mature age bracket?

It does seem to be a theme that I’ve noticed when running the line, Some of the more mature referees (many of whom have probably been refereeing longer than I’ve been alive) do seem to do their own thing, and are also the ones you never see at development sessions etc.

Absolutely correct on both counts

That referee was not given the opportunity of treating this information with contempt because he didn't receive it. Nor did any other referee unless they specifically went looking for it on the FA website.

CFAs have every referee's email address. It would be very easy for them to send occasional updates on important developments.

Again I take you back to my point. Why should it matter? The referee's role is to observe and report. If they can't even identify for themselves (generational gap?) why a particular comment should be regarded as offensive, what difference will it make to them anyway?

 

[alexgr]

Again I take you back to my point. Why should it matter? The referee's role is to observe and report. If they can't even identify for themselves (generational gap?) why a particular comment should be regarded as offensive, what difference will it make to them anyway?

Because like it or not, society has changed, and what once may have been acceptable no longer is. This isn't a criticism of older generations, but it requires an acknowledgement that change is needed.

 

[Trip]

Again I take you back to my point. Why should it matter? The referee's role is to observe and report. If they can't even identify for themselves (generational gap?) why a particular comment should be regarded as offensive, what difference will it make to them anyway?

It's not (only) a generational issue. I had a mid-20s captain scream at his defence "have we all turned f*cking gay?" this season. Nobody batted an eyelid. If he'd used a racist term he'd have got lamped. I never hear racist language on the pitch but I hear homophobic language several times a season.

The FA directive is actually ahead of the cultural norms. This is a good thing. But it's not a good thing to tell players, especially youth players, that referees have been trained to handle reports of homophobic abuse when they haven't - particularly when a lot of referees do not regard homophobic abuse a worthy even of a caution.

The CFAs should tell referees not to accept homophobic language. It would be very easy.

The level 5 referee I mentioned earlier in the thread was at least 20 years younger than me.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Because like it or not, society has changed, and what once may have been acceptable no longer is. This isn't a criticism of older generations, but it requires an acknowledgement that change is needed.

Entirely agree. I may be close to 55, but such behaviour is abhorrent to me. No one who crosses the white line to play football should be subject to any form of abuse. Education is the key, but I'm not sure educating the match officials is the best way to achieve a change in attitudes. It merely puts them in the place where they face more conflict when this could be eradicated or at least more effectively challenged by every club from U7 upwards having to have education that all abuse in football is wrong.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Wise words Mr Pie!

 

[RobOda]

Wise words Mr Pie!

Bit different though isn't it? I don't think anyone's being a comedian on the football pitch when they're bringing in certain remarks.

 

[alexgr]

Entirely agree. I may be close to 55, but such behaviour is abhorrent to me. No one who crosses the white line to play football should be subject to any form of abuse. Education is the key, but I'm not sure educating the match officials is the best way to achieve a change in attitudes. It merely puts them in the place where they face more conflict when this could be eradicated or at least more effectively challenged by every club from U7 upwards having to have education that all abuse in football is wrong.

Oh completely, you're bang on - it requires education for all participants at all levels. Excluding referees from that would, however, be dangerous and counterproductive in my opinion.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Bit different though isn't it? I don't think anyone's being a comedian on the football pitch when they're bringing in certain remarks.

That’s the whole point Rob, it’s what one person finds offensive compared to someone who completely doesn’t. Of course certain things shouldn’t be said anywhere but where do you stop, ban comedians or jokes or even speech?

 

[zarathustra]

That’s the whole point Rob, it’s what one person finds offensive compared to someone who completely doesn’t. Of course certain things shouldn’t be said anywhere but where do you stop, ban comedians or jokes or even speech?

People have the right to free speech, but others also have the right not to listen to 22 blokes f’ing and blinding on a Sunday morning.

I know of one team that I referees a few times last season who played on a pitch that was surrounded by houses on two side and the local community center/village hall on another.

The local residents had started a petition to have the team banned from using that pitch due to the language etc. (I don’t know if they still play there, haven’t had one of their games this season).

If we just look at general swearing in a match ie not directed at anyone. If I’m on a pitch in the middle of no where then I’d be inclined to let more go, and try to manage things before they get out of hand.

But if I’m at one of the locations that is surrounded by houses, or near a children’s play area etc I will be much stricter on it.

I live maybe 2-300 meters from one of the local recs with a fairly busy road, numerous houses and trees etc in the way but I can hear players screaming and shouting on a Sunday morning.

Should the people whose houses are much closer have to listen to that sort of language whilst drinking their morning coffee?