A&H

playing advantage

samogonochka

New Member
Level 3 Referee
Hey Refs,
I have a question on playing advantage here.

Attacking player fouled outside PA, but his team kept possession and with 2 quick passes, had a shot at the goals. As ball was going wider, I called off the advantage and ordered a FK from outside PA. It was fairly quick action all up, 5-8 seconds.

Was I taking too long before calling FK? If ball has gone out, can I still order FK to attacking team?

Thanks so much
 
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If they've had two passes and gone on to take a good shot at the goal, then that's the advantage. You shouldn't be calling it back at that point, that the shot went wide is irrelevant.


To answer the other question though, yes you can bring it back for a freekick if the ball goes out, but I would be thinking it would happen in scenarios where you've tried to play the advantage from someone getting fouled, only for his pass to be overhit, in which case there was no advantage to play.
 
In general 5 seconds should be the limit of the time you wait to see if any advantage materialises. Law 5 say "within a few seconds". 8 seconds is too long to wait for me.

In your situation, you have to be very careful not to tilt the balance of fairness too much in the attackers favour. Some call it giving them two bites at the cherry. For me, in a very promising attack or goal scoring opportunity situation, the time to wait reduces even further (one, maybe one and half seconds), basically the time it would take to put the whistle in my mouth and blow it (well let's say I am slow to react). During that time as soon as I see the attacking team are in a better position than a free kick, I signal advantage and there is no bringing back. Otherwise I blow for the foul.
 
Seems to me that the OP is having trouble drawing the line between an advantage that is not realized and an advantage that is squandered. I’d suggest thinking about it like this. Advantage is never about getting two bites at the apple. Advantage is about not calling a foul if it is better for the offended team to not call the foul. As @one said, once they have an opportunity that is a better opportunity than the FK would be, there’s no going back—if they don’t make use of that opportunity, too bad. So we go back when we are waiting to see if that better opportunity exists. Things like is he able to keep his feet? Is the pas making it past the defender? Is the ball going to land near the onside attacker or the OSP attacker. But a player making a poor play in an advantageous situation is never a basis for going back on advantage.
 
A few years ago, I played an advantage and as soon as I had signaled the player lost the ball due to a really poor pass. He was shouting for me to bring it back because there was no advantage; I just quietly told him on the way by that there had been an advantage and he wasted it with a dreadful pass. He got the idea and even said "fair enough."
 
It is if it's the same player who was "fouled" and only a couple of seconds have elapsed since .... ;):)

If the fouled player makes a poor play he squandered the advantage and we don’t go back. If the player is unable to make a play because of the impact of the foul then we go back because he never had a more advantageous situation than the FK that would have been awarded.

We go back because the advantage was never really there, not because the advantage was wasted by poor play by the offended player or team.

(There is history on this. Once upon a time, referees were supposed to immediately recognize advantage—and not go back if they were wrong. The change was made (in part because referees were already slowing down to avoid a bad advantage call) to allow referees to wait and see if the advantage was really there—did it “ensued.” But the change was not to save players from their mistakes.)
 
If the fouled player makes a poor play he squandered the advantage and we don’t go back. If the player is unable to make a play because of the impact of the foul then we go back because he never had a more advantageous situation than the FK that would have been awarded.

We go back because the advantage was never really there, not because the advantage was wasted by poor play by the offended player or team.

(There is history on this. Once upon a time, referees were supposed to immediately recognize advantage—and not go back if they were wrong. The change was made (in part because referees were already slowing down to avoid a bad advantage call) to allow referees to wait and see if the advantage was really there—did it “ensued.” But the change was not to save players from their mistakes.)

I get what you're saying and I do know all that mate. ;)

My point was, that during a match, it's not black and white. For instance, a player could be "clipped" whilst running with the ball, stay on his feet for a second before either tripping over the ball/his own feet/ or losing control. He may also (as one player once complained to me) have been momentarily put off mentally because he's half expecting the whistle to sound. As you've alluded to already, the impact of the challenge may (or may not) have impacted upon his (team's) ability to make use of the advantage, but the players would expect that you'd be calling that back for the FK if only a couple of seconds had elapsed, irrespective of whether you'd shouted "advantage" or not. I've only ever done it when it's the same player in question though. :) I'm in total agreement with the notion of not giving a team 2 bites at it, but sometimes it just happens that way, especially if you've been a second or two too quick with the call.
I used to be quite bad for it early on as a new referee but over time I've learned to delay the call for 2 or 3 seconds longer and see what happens. It's saved me a ton of grief on more than one occasion. :D
 
Sounds like we completely agree. :)

I do think many refs miss the boat on one side or the other. Some play advantage just because there is some level of possessions—even though the potential opportunity is nowhere close to as advantageous as the free kick. And others fall apart on the other side, coming back to save a player from a poor choice or poor play when the opportunity the player had was better than the FK. Some otherwise excellent referees seem to get complete lost in the world of advantage.
 
I think one thing that I think can help is being a little slower in actually playing the advantage. As people have said, advantage is allowing a team to get a better outcome than the FK or to stop the defending team gaining an advantage from a foul. You only know that once you see the play develop. If you immediately call advantage from a foul, how do you know it's an advantage? If I see a foul, I wait for a second or two to see what happens before either blowing for a FK or then playing the advantage. I feel that really helps as as it avoids playing advantage straight away and it not developing or then something going wrong and having to decipher if the initial foul impacted the player who messed up. Players on both sides seem to react well to the slightly delayed advantage call. Once I do play advantage, nothing can then go wrong due to the foul and is only squandered by the team themselves and doesn't need to be brought back for a second bite of the cherry
 
I think one thing that I think can help is being a little slower in actually playing the advantage. As people have said, advantage is allowing a team to get a better outcome than the FK or to stop the defending team gaining an advantage from a foul. You only know that once you see the play develop. If you immediately call advantage from a foul, how do you know it's an advantage? If I see a foul, I wait for a second or two to see what happens before either blowing for a FK or then playing the advantage. I feel that really helps as as it avoids playing advantage straight away and it not developing or then something going wrong and having to decipher if the initial foul impacted the player who messed up. Players on both sides seem to react well to the slightly delayed advantage call. Once I do play advantage, nothing can then go wrong due to the foul and is only squandered by the team themselves and doesn't need to be brought back for a second bite of the cherry
Say half a second after the foul , the ball goes to an unmarked team mate who gets posession of the ball and has better attacking opportunity than a free kick. Do you wait a second or two longer to see what he does with the ball ?
 
I know it's difficult to tell from just the small amount of information given in the OP but I think there's a real chance that the poster may be looking for advantage and trying to apply it where it doesn't really exist.

When I read that a referee is playing advantage because "his team kept possession" then it kinda starts the alarm bells ringing for me. Advantage is not about mere possession - it really does require that "the non-offending team will benefit" - and one of the things that the Laws document tells us should really be present is the chance of "an immediate, promising attack."

Now, it's possible that due to paucity of evidence given, I'm jumping to conclusions and there really was an immediate promising attack here but I'm not really seeing it in the description.

So perhaps the problem is not so much to do with whether the attackers have squandered the advantage but whether there actually was an advantage to be played in the first place.
 
Say half a second after the foul , the ball goes to an unmarked team mate who gets posession of the ball and has better attacking opportunity than a free kick. Do you wait a second or two longer to see what he does with the ball ?

If it's clear possession, then no I wouldn't wait as that is the advantage and I would at that point signal that I'm playing an advantage. If the player then kicks it out or over hits a pass or whatever, then that's just them being bad and wasting the advantage. If they don't gain clear possession, for example they're tackled immediately as they're receiving the ball, then I would bring it back for the FK.
I just see advantage as that, you are playing on as they have a better advantage than the FK. I don't think calliing advantage to see if they then actually get an advantage is the best way of doing it.
 
If it's clear possession, then no I wouldn't wait as that is the advantage and I would at that point signal that I'm playing an advantage.
Again, I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that seems to be being put forward again here, that possession (even clear possession) equals advantage. That isn't (in my opinion, at least) sufficient grounds to allow play to continue. I think there needs to be a higher bar set. Possession is the absolute minimum starting point for the possibility of an advantage call - but there has to be more.

As previously mentioned, the IFAB has advised that when looking at the opportunity for play to continue, the following are among the considerations:
• the position where the offence was committed - the closer to the opponent’s goal, the more effective the advantage can be
• the chances of an immediate, promising attack
• the atmosphere of the match

I have the impression that all too often, referees are trying to allow play to continue at every opportunity, instead of only when the non-offending team will truly benefit.
 
Again, I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that seems to be being put forward again here, that possession (even clear possession) equals advantage

I would agree, I was however answering a very specific question put to me.
But to clarify, if the scenario was they gained possession in a promising attacking position, then I would play advantage; anything else and most of the time I'd probably just be blowing for the FK.

I'm just saying, in general, I don't think playing advantage to see IF advantage develops is the right thing. You play advantage once it has, otherwise give the FK. But of course in every situation there are individual aspects, nuances and specifics to consider.
 
Must admit, 'advantage' is a 'work in progress' for me
Funny how it clicks in some games. Last night was a bit one sided in midfield so a bit easier to call and players were staying on their feet. I gave three simple no biggie one handers, and then for the first time in about 3 years an advantage yellow. I made time to tell the player and others on the hoof. Basics but yes:)
 
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