A&H

Pot pourri of mildly interesting match incidents

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
I have done so many matches recently that's there's been no time to come and waffle on here.
So, here's a bit of a pot pourri of incidents from the last few weeks. A couple of question marks in here. At least I learned something from this lot...


U17 top national youth league that only allows 3 sub events in the second half, I am AR1: deal with two subs, play restarts, at next stoppage a player comes close to the bench and the bench sends me another player "and him", of course I'm "er... no, do you want another sub..." Of course, that next sub used up their third "event" so they couldn't make any more. Learning: in the big games I do (silly 2nd half sub rule or not), I now always ask "how many subs"!

Mens mid tier last night (I am AR, young awesome ref, UEFA trained assessor): attacker crossing the ball on the ground into the penalty area, defender slides feet first, whole body on the ground, outstretched, arms also outstretched in front of face on the deck, horizontal, blocks the cross with hands. Ref decision is PK, no YC. We discussed were the arms supporting the body, they were not under the body, so, no. We discussed were the hands "above the shoulder" - they were not "above" in literal terms but they were stretched out from the shoulder - and our man had had UEFA advice to read this as above the shoulder, therefore PK - all good. YC not mandatory depending on locations of other attackers.

Same mens mid tier last night (I am ref): SPA busy midfield foul followed by quick kick of the ball away. Clean, well-managed game. I was quick with the YC. But the offender flicked the ball away quickly just before I raised the card - his blue team were one up. He gave me the option of the double yellow. It would have been crazy officious in this game, so I gave just the YC, and said it was for delay of game, to end the prospect of other antics. Blues then conceded 3 to lose 1-3.

Higher mens, few hundred in the crowd (AR1): sub event after a goal, this is one league down from electronic numbers, player #1 is ready to come on, I've checked his equipment, but the team changes their mind, instead gives me player #2 and a different than planned player comes off, no problem, we complete the sub, waiting for the restart, another player goes off and player #1 runs on! I make sure the ref does not restart, go back to half way, the bench apologises, I complete the substitution by taking the numbers. I didn't bring player#1 back to the sideline (I'd already checked his equipment) and I didn't ask for cards (we hadn't restarted). -->What do you think, were YC or YCs mandatory here?

Lower 8v8 U14 boys: simple quiet game, until a careless tackle by yellow, a tiny bump as they get up, and the yellow attacker grabs the blue GK by the throat with force. RC no problem. Coaches start a little banter so I calm them. I'm checking that the RC player is going back to the dressing room, when the yellow coach says something. Before we get into this, remember that OFFINABUS is different for everyone, and for me this is an easy red card. Yellow coach says to me: "is it because he is black?" RC for coach, who immediately starts packing up and getting the boys' bags. I ask if there is another adult that can look after the team, he says no, I abandoned the match. There were a few parents with the other team but none with the yellows. From throat grab to abandon was a calm 2 minutes. Utterly bizarre. I explained without details to the parents and other coach, and also checked with a couple of the yellow players that they understood.

I've also done loads of games with comms recently. As AR I had already been using some of the things from comms whether using comms or not - like saying out loud "OK" at close non-offsides. Now I also say every "backpass" - I will never miss a weird backpass again and my logic is, if a GK does pick one up, I will have already sold the IDFK to the dozen players in earshot. On comms, but internally if no comms, I also say "SPA" - sometimes as players enter "the SPA zone". This is trickier, and only a couple of refs I have worked with do this, and I think this is not something you want players to hear, in case there is a complex situation.

And "in play" - actually, with all these, the local translation... with short goal kicks, short free kicks, I state clearly when the ball is in play - as ref, it means no nonsense about picking the ball up again if they've taken one too quick, as AR most refs ask for this on comms in case their back is turned. But this nearly got me in trouble as AR (no comms) with a ref parachuted into a game that he wasn't really up to - game heating up, star defender takes quick free kick near own box, me: "in play, in play", star defender realises he's played his teammate into trouble, star defender happens to be a 2nd tier ref (!), star defender picks up the ball, our ref is like whatever let's him respot the FK, the 4 players nearest me nearly go beserk but we get away with it. Learning there is: as AR don't communicate with the players more than your ref ;)

Speaking of which...

U17 top national youth league (AR)... smarty pants GK has ball in hand and wants to waste time, attacker is 8 yards in front of him, GK looks across at me and says the attacker is too close, I say no get on with it, he feints the kick, complains again and again. Basically a work of genius... the GK has undermined the ref here, is wasting time, all I am saying is get on with it. A few mins later, same scenario again. And it's only the first half! On comms we quickly agreed that I will ignore the GK and the ref will handle the next incident, which never came. There was no easy way out here. But as refs, we can watch for this one and get in early!


...and I haven't even mentioned working in a three with the lady that will ref the national womens cup final, or helping prevent a massed con the other day as my ref gave 12 cards and 2 VC reds (he was brilliant), or not getting any assessments this season (and getting taken off a game with a video review so a friend of mine, promoted ahead of me, who happens to be half my age - ahem, with 8 assessments this month - ahem - could do it instead - I'd better ruddy see him on telly one day soon!) ...only a few weeks of the season to go here...

Hmm one last one... I've had a few "season's best ref" in the last couple of weeks - even one "we don't get refs of your standard down here" - how little they know! - M8 if I was at a higher level, I'd be doing those games! and I know that talk is very cheap, if only they'd write that stuff to the refsecs... but, anyway, how about this: in my toughest ref game of the season, 5th tier, problem team, problem coach, that problem coach who is a third tier ref, a "friend" but doesn't really rate me (yes, I do feel I have something to prove, but I do it by doing the same things every game, trying to learn, do better), problem player is his big striker. They lose 1-3, after the game the two of them approach the circle from different directions, as the coach is about to reluctantly shake, the big problem striker wheels in with "season's best ref". The look on my coach's face! Ha!

Slow news day ;)
 
The Referee Store
. . .

(1) Same mens mid tier last night (I am ref): SPA busy midfield foul followed by quick kick of the ball away. Clean, well-managed game. I was quick with the YC. But the offender flicked the ball away quickly just before I raised the card - his blue team were one up. He gave me the option of the double yellow. It would have been crazy officious in this game, so I gave just the YC, and said it was for delay of game, to end the prospect of other antics. Blues then conceded 3 to lose 1-3.
. . .

(2) Higher mens, few hundred in the crowd (AR1): sub event after a goal, this is one league down from electronic numbers, player #1 is ready to come on, I've checked his equipment, but the team changes their mind, instead gives me player #2 and a different than planned player comes off, no problem, we complete the sub, waiting for the restart, another player goes off and player #1 runs on! I make sure the ref does not restart, go back to half way, the bench apologises, I complete the substitution by taking the numbers. I didn't bring player#1 back to the sideline (I'd already checked his equipment) and I didn't ask for cards (we hadn't restarted). -->What do you think, were YC or YCs mandatory here?
. . .
(3) I've also done loads of games with comms recently. As AR I had already been using some of the things from comms whether using comms or not - like saying out loud "OK" at close non-offsides. Now I also say every "backpass" - I will never miss a weird backpass again and my logic is, if a GK does pick one up, I will have already sold the IDFK to the dozen players in earshot. On comms, but internally if no comms, I also say "SPA" - sometimes as players enter "the SPA zone". This is trickier, and only a couple of refs I have worked with do this, and I think this is not something you want players to hear, in case there is a complex situation.

(4) And "in play" - actually, with all these, the local translation... with short goal kicks, short free kicks, I state clearly when the ball is in play - as ref, it means no nonsense about picking the ball up again if they've taken one too quick, as AR most refs ask for this on comms in case their back is turned. But this nearly got me in trouble as AR (no comms) with a ref parachuted into a game that he wasn't really up to - game heating up, star defender takes quick free kick near own box, me: "in play, in play", star defender realises he's played his teammate into trouble, star defender happens to be a 2nd tier ref (!), star defender picks up the ball, our ref is like whatever let's him respot the FK, the 4 players nearest me nearly go beserk but we get away with it. Learning there is: as AR don't communicate with the players more than your ref ;)

. . .

(5) U17 top national youth league (AR)... smarty pants GK has ball in hand and wants to waste time, attacker is 8 yards in front of him, GK looks across at me and says the attacker is too close, I say no get on with it, he feints the kick, complains again and again. Basically a work of genius... the GK has undermined the ref here, is wasting time, all I am saying is get on with it. A few mins later, same scenario again. And it's only the first half! On comms we quickly agreed that I will ignore the GK and the ref will handle the next incident, which never came. There was no easy way out here. But as refs, we can watch for this one and get in early!

(1) I think you were dead on right to not give a second card for DR--since you were already stopping play to caution, it didn't delay the restart. (I suppose you could have considered it dissent, but that is a whole new can of worms that should only be opened if it is really bad.)

(2) IMO YHTBT. Sounds like there was confusion more than misconduct. At a professional level, I would expect a caution. At low level, I would not--somewhere in between there is a line to be drawn. I have no opinion as to which side of the line the game described was on.

(3) I think the key with comms is to have a clear understanding on the ref team on what is going to be said over the comms. I know the MLS refs in the US have a number of very clear phrases that to be used (and not used), and are designed in part to avoid confusion if something is only partially heard.

(4) I think this also provides some more broad good advice to being an AR. As ARs we have to be careful about what we verbalize to avoid conflict with the referee who can have a different angle or different opinion and make a call different from what we expect. (Folks who try those stupid trick corners must hate you when you say "in play" . . . )

(5) "Let's go keep--don't make me call 6 seconds."
 
(1) I think you were dead on right to not give a second card for DR--since you were already stopping play to caution, it didn't delay the restart. (I suppose you could have considered it dissent, but that is a whole new can of worms that should only be opened if it is really bad.)

(2) IMO YHTBT. Sounds like there was confusion more than misconduct. At a professional level, I would expect a caution. At low level, I would not--somewhere in between there is a line to be drawn. I have no opinion as to which side of the line the game described was on.

(3) I think the key with comms is to have a clear understanding on the ref team on what is going to be said over the comms. I know the MLS refs in the US have a number of very clear phrases that to be used (and not used), and are designed in part to avoid confusion if something is only partially heard.

(4) I think this also provides some more broad good advice to being an AR. As ARs we have to be careful about what we verbalize to avoid conflict with the referee who can have a different angle or different opinion and make a call different from what we expect. (Folks who try those stupid trick corners must hate you when you say "in play" . . . )

(5) "Let's go keep--don't make me call 6 seconds."
2) It was high enough level. If a YC was mandated by law then we should have cautioned. As the game had not restarted, I took the path of least resistance, did not call my ref over to explain and initiate the cautions, instead just got on with it. If I had called him over, I think we would have to have given both players YCs - the leaving and entering. This would have been carnage in the middle of a tricky game. The coach apologised to me as soon as I got to half way. I think I did him a big favour. I think I also did the game a favour, but, OK, maybe I also cost us both a 7.9!

3) Absolutely. Minimum set of carefully used words and phrases. Bear in mind I am also doing it in a third language so I have no interest in waffling on. I am lucky that most of the comms I am doing is with a set of elite/young/academy refs that train together - and they are consistent - with the best just adding a few details.

Here a lot of ref of started buying their own cheap (motorcycle test brand) comms and so they have started getting used in lower games with ARs that don't have the training/focus - and this isn't great. The teams are OK with it - they don't notice, but I had one game the other day with lads who liked to be funny on the comms - that I can handle - but then were so confident they were calling and flagging rather listening to me saying "play on" - one lad doubled my card count!
 
Lower 8v8 U14 boys: simple quiet game, until a careless tackle by yellow, a tiny bump as they get up, and the yellow attacker grabs the blue GK by the throat with force. RC no problem. Coaches start a little banter so I calm them. I'm checking that the RC player is going back to the dressing room, when the yellow coach says something. Before we get into this, remember that OFFINABUS is different for everyone, and for me this is an easy red card. Yellow coach says to me: "is it because he is black?" RC for coach, who immediately starts packing up and getting the boys' bags. I ask if there is another adult that can look after the team, he says no, I abandoned the match. There were a few parents with the other team but none with the yellows. From throat grab to abandon was a calm 2 minutes. Utterly bizarre. I explained without details to the parents and other coach, and also checked with a couple of the yellow players that they understood.

Slow news day ;)

This one made me LOL.

FFS @santa sangria you must have upset the Gods on that day or something. :D

Fair play to you though for doing exactly the right thing. ;) :)
 
This one made me LOL.

FFS @santa sangria you must have upset the Gods on that day or something. :D

Fair play to you though for doing exactly the right thing. ;) :)
My first abandonment in 7 years of this (and probably 500 matches or thereabouts).

S**'s law I had a really tricky one tonight with two mouthy teams that got frustrated with lots of poor play. It wasn't that niggly but there was a lot of player management to do. There were a couple of fouls I coulda shoulda called that might have helped. Anyway, the yellows were 2-1 up with a minute to go. Ball goes to black GK. I look back and see yellow CB push black striker (the ball is at the other end). I blow, check with AR, YC for yellow, black DFK 30 yards out. GK comes up, nearly everyone is in the box, handbags. I get the two protagonists and warn them. At last we get the DFK in the air. So many players close to the goal area, I am well in the box, right in front of those two protagonists... yellow pushes black in the face as the ball goes over their heads to the far post and is cleared... PK, YC to black... which is scored, not before the game's only YC for dissent for a yellow convinced I didn't want his team to win! M8, your teammates have just blown a 2-1 lead with seconds to go by committing YC offences off the ball!! Anyway, I was happy but I agreed with my ARs that I could have found some excuse to give a dissent card (s) earlier in the half... I sometimes close my ears a little and get too confident that I can manage verbals.
 
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My first abandonment in 7 years of this (and probably 500 matches or thereabouts).

S**'s law I had a really tricky one tonight with two mouthy teams that got frustrated with lots of poor play. It wasn't that niggly but there was a lot of player management to do. There were a couple of fouls I coulda shoulda called that might have helped. Anyway, the yellows were 2-1 up with a minute to go. Ball goes to black GK. I look back and see yellow CB push black striker (the ball is at the other end). I blow, check with AR, YC for yellow, black DFK 30 yards out. GK comes up, nearly everyone is in the box, handbags. I get the two protagonists and warn them. At last we get the DFK in the air. So many players close to the goal area, I am well in the box, right in front of those two protagonists... yellow pushes black in the face as the ball goes over their heads to the far post and is cleared... PK, YC to black... which is scored, not before the game's only YC for dissent for a yellow convinced I didn't want his team to win! M8, your teammates have just blown a 2-1 lead with seconds to go by committing YC offences off the ball!! Anyway, I was happy but I agreed with my ARs that I could have found some excuse to give a dissent card (s) earlier in the half... I sometimes close my ears a little and get too confident that I can manage verbals.

How close was the yellow to being a red for the push to the face?
 
Anybody groundlessly accusing a referee of discrimination should be dismissed with an Extraordinary Report for deformation of character
I always see this behaviour as worse than discrimination itself; because of the potential ramifications for the victim and the fact that it undermines any genuine reports of prejudice
 
How close was the yellow to being a red for the push to the face?
Great question. Attacker was bending down a bit. Also it was one handed. So, I felt the defender intended to push the attacker in the chest - but he wasn’t looking. So, there was no justification for red I felt.
 
I have been wanting to comment to this OP but still procrastinating. It's like that 5000 word essay you procrastinate on but you still do your 500 word essays.
 
Anybody groundlessly accusing a referee of discrimination should be dismissed with an Extraordinary Report for deformation of character
I always see this behaviour as worse than discrimination itself; because of the potential ramifications for the victim and the fact that it undermines any genuine reports of prejudice

I think this is a very difficult area. In this case I had ”connected” with this coach before the game, we had some common background.

I don’t want to to shoehorn his comment into a sliding scale of discrimmination,

He said something silly that was offensive enough to me to earn an OFFINABUS RC. In his heart of hearts was he really making a racial slur, I don’t think so. Might an authority deem it discrimmatory, maybe. Do I think he should get a rollicking and a ban, yes.

The boys understood what had happened and the overall feeling was sadness. Football (and refereeing) is one of the few islands of diversity here. I just hope the coach made a suitable apology to the boys.
 
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