Pre-match 'dissent' - Last weeks ref

[QuaverRef]

Anyone get any problems with dissent before a match starts when asking for players to remove tape and piercings? Arguably previous referees are the ones causing me the problems here, but one particular team were giving me a high level of stick for telling them to remove tape from their socks (they were wearing a full white kit with black tape on socks, opposition wearing black shorts and socks.

A few things said to me

- The referee last week told me that wasn't a rule anymore (yeah, of course he did!). I offered him my LOTG book to sit and have a read
- One player point black refused to remove it. Told him he won't be playing unless it's removed
- One player claimed that wearing tape over a ring is perfectly fine. Again, offered him my LOTG book
- 'Oi mate, got any white tape? The referee is giving us s**t already'
- It's a safety issue, my shin pads could fall out.
- It's only Sunday league! For the third time, I offered him my LOTG book and asked if he could point out the different rule set for Sundays

Ever had any problems with this? It's seems to me like the cause is 'last weeks ref' who doesn't want the hassle, but I hear all this sort of stuff far to often. My main concern is 'club marks' and while this shouldn't be an issue, it does get used towards promotion and you know for a fact if a report were to go in, they wouldn't put in things like 'referee told me to remove my tape'

 

[Ref Luke 2203]

Jewelry removal is a must. Can be dangerous and rightly so, you should insist is removed and not only covered.

As for tape on socks, LOTG do also reference the 'spirit of the game'. Was tape going to significantly impact this match? At high level it is understandable as teams and leagues have an image to uphold. At low level parks Sunday league games, I have had assessors who have insisted we as referees shouldn't be so picky and should apply common sense. If it was an FA competition then yes as the level of football and therefore expectations of the teams and scutiny of such thing increase significantly.

Its not about not wanting hassle or club marks but about understanding and picking your battles. How many clubs do you know at sunday league level who have multiple coloured tapes at their disposal? Would you rather have wrong coloured tape or shinpad showing? In law your right and thats not your problem but common sense is allowed!

 

[Big Cat]

Jewelry removal is a must. Can be dangerous and rightly so, you should insist is removed and not only covered.

As for tape on socks, LOTG do also reference the 'spirit of the game'. Was tape going to significantly impact this match? At high level it is understandable as teams and leagues have an image to uphold. At low level parks Sunday league games, I have had assessors who have insisted we as referees shouldn't be so picky and should apply common sense. If it was an FA competition then yes as the level of football and therefore expectations of the teams and scutiny of such thing increase significantly.

Its not about not wanting hassle or club marks but about understanding and picking your battles. How many clubs do you know at sunday league level who have multiple coloured tapes at their disposal? Would you rather have wrong coloured tape or shinpad showing? In law your right and thats not your problem but common sense is allowed!

I agree
Sunday League, I think you're letting the refereeing fraternity down if you're overly pedantic about such things. That said, I carry sock tape in all colours and bibs (for subs or linos) and flat discs for faded touchlines, in a bid to prompt these common problems. In Baltic conditions, it's a question of educating players for next week, rather than asking them to remove mismatching thermals

 

[MattTheRef]

In Sunday football I take the approach of warning the players if it were a cup final/Saturday league/Higher level etc.. that their sock tape was not okay, but as it was only Sunday league I didn't feel that I should cause myself issues by insisting it was removed.
Hopefully this doesn't make me 'last weeks ref' as this contributes to my ability to game manage by appearing to be on their side, when ultimately it makes little difference at this level.

 

[QuaverRef]

Jewelry removal is a must. Can be dangerous and rightly so, you should insist is removed and not only covered.

As for tape on socks, LOTG do also reference the 'spirit of the game'. Was tape going to significantly impact this match? At high level it is understandable as teams and leagues have an image to uphold. At low level parks Sunday league games, I have had assessors who have insisted we as referees shouldn't be so picky and should apply common sense. If it was an FA competition then yes as the level of football and therefore expectations of the teams and scutiny of such thing increase significantly.

Its not about not wanting hassle or club marks but about understanding and picking your battles. How many clubs do you know at sunday league level who have multiple coloured tapes at their disposal? Would you rather have wrong coloured tape or shinpad showing? In law your right and thats not your problem but common sense is allowed!

Considering the colour clash, would we consider this "picky"?

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Sock tape law is by far the stupidest thing FIFA have ever come up with. Sometimes I think IFAB are a practical joke inflicted upon us. Same with the undershorts law. Completely absurd.
What they should have done is allow competitions to modify Law 4. That way, a competition can put this law in place if they want to, but there's no need for it to apply to grassroots. Couldn't be more out of touch if they tried.
But when in Rome.....I've spent most of my time refereeing in 2 areas. One of them, even up to local first grade level, these 2 laws were ignored across the board. Brilliant, everybody wins there. Personally, I carried a packet of all different coloured electrical tape in my bag, figured I'd happily offer it out (I also needed to tape up a lot of Futsal nets.....although cable ties work much better)
The other, they were both applied at all levels. U/12, low grade mens, everything. I'd happy agree with players that it's stupid, but I've gotta do it! Not enforcing it would be letting everyone down.

As for jewellery, I doubt last week's ref said any of those things, they're just trying it on. Sometimes player's argue about it. Try to avoid having to be authoritative unless you really, really have to. The stuff you posted, I wouldn't consider it to be 'dissent' as such, a little bit of whining, but I guess I wasn't there.

But at this point you need to be aware that the players are already off side - so you're aware of this when you manage them on the pitch.

How you approach these things can win or lose you games. I lost control of a game before it started by approaching it a bit arrogantly once (unintentionally). No real problems before, but the game turned pear shaped and I reckon I lost respect before it started. A smile and a sympathetic "look guys, I hate bothering you with this crap as well, but I'm the one that gets in the s*** if they hear I'm letting you wear it. It's black and white, I don't know what last week's ref was doing, but I'm stuck with it too. Help me out here, yeah? Thanks, appreciate it. Have a good game fellas!"

It's just about how you approach it. Like onfield, if the players didn't respond to your approach today, then maybe you need to change your approach?

for instance, offering the law book and asking them to show where it's different for Sunday league could be taken as being a bit of a smart aleck. It could be seen as good natured, even a bit of a jest - I don't know how it was delivered and the tone of the conversation, i'm just highlighting one example.

Sometimes the best approach is like on the field - say what you need to say and move on before they argue: "Hey, 6, could I just get you to make sure your wedding ring's off before you start? Thanks, appreciate it" and move on. Not always practical to take that approach, but it can work sometimes.

 

[Ref Luke 2203]

Considering the colour clash, would we consider this "picky"?

I would say yes in this instance. Is a few rings of black tape going to cause you signifiant confusion and an inability to distinguish between a predominantly black and a predominantly white sock? Especially at this level, whats the real impact in doing this other than rustling feathers of people probably paying subs to have a weekly game of football? Common sense must prevail!!!

 

[GraemeS]

My general rule on sock tape is that I'm OK as long as it doesn't clash with opponents's socks. It's usually a fairly easy sell to get them to remove it if that is the case, and I don't think it makes much difference where there is no clash.

 

[RobOda]

Once or twice I've had borderline dissent for undershirt/shorts not being of the same colour.

One player from a rather decent club was starting to get into an argument with me in the hallway of the changing rooms over this, but one of his senior team-mates came by to tell him to pack it in and behave before it escalated to a point I'd dish out a card. He obviously changed the undershirt and there were no further issues.

Sock tape for me is a bit nit-picky. I would just advise them about getting the same colour tape in future. I have seen an assessor pull up a referee on this though, more of to remind him to do the checks etc, but I feel it's a trivial thing at grassroots level... Honestly.

It's seems to me like the cause is 'last weeks ref' who doesn't want the hassle, but I hear all this sort of stuff far to often.

I understand. It's something that will happen at this level. The only thing you can do is be consistent about your own application and never mind last week's ref.

 

[QuaverRef]

I would say yes in this instance. Is a few rings of black tape going to cause you signifiant confusion and an inability to distinguish between a predominantly black and a predominantly white sock? Especially at this level, whats the real impact in doing this other than rustling feathers of people probably paying subs to have a weekly game of football? Common sense must prevail!!!

Whilst I can see where you're coming from, I do disagree in this instance. In terms of tape I won't go down the route of 'it has to match your socks' and be that picky at grassroots level, but I'll most definitely be saying you can't have the same colour tape as the other teams socks. Whilst it may not cause confusion, you're adding to the chances of confusion by allowing it.

 

[JamesL]

Out of interest, Sunday league game, both teams turn up. One red, one blue shirts. But both have black shorts and socks and no different to change into. What you doing?

 

[Ref Luke 2203]

Whilst I can see where you're coming from, I do disagree in this instance. In terms of tape I won't go down the route of 'it has to match your socks' and be that picky at grassroots level, but I'll most definitely be saying you can't have the same colour tape as the other teams socks. Whilst it may not cause confusion, you're adding to the chances of confusion by allowing it.

I understand your point and guess this would also depend on sock style etc. If you feel it will impact significantly then I would understand the reason to request tapes removed or changed. Kinda tough to determine and each situation will be different. At least were in agreement that this is a case where the letter of the law can be bended by some simple thinking where possible at lower levels.

 

[Ref Luke 2203]

Out of interest, Sunday league game, both teams turn up. One red, one blue shirts. But both have black shorts and socks and no different to change into. What you doing?

Carry on. Not ideal situation for anyone (especially as I will be wearing black too) but there are some things games should be called off for and then there a things which arent ideal but shouldnt effect a match at that level. If it was a higher level game then you of expected pre match admin to have ironed out these issues before match day.

 

[GraemeS]

Out of interest, Sunday league game, both teams turn up. One red, one blue shirts. But both have black shorts and socks and no different to change into. What you doing?

Depends. Only time I've ever had this happen was along with a shirt clash at a Ladies match and when I turned up, the managers were already at each other's throats about it. I was on the verge of calling the match off, before the away team manager "remembered" that they had silver training tops they could wear, and the away team captain suggested she drive to a sports direct and buy 10 pairs of white socks. But up until that point, I was just about the call it off - and that was certainly in part down to both managers being dicks about it!

 

[QuaverRef]

Out of interest, Sunday league game, both teams turn up. One red, one blue shirts. But both have black shorts and socks and no different to change into. What you doing?

It's a difficult one that as in Law 4 says that both teams colours have to distinguish from each other but I would play on, knowing that they do as the bulk of the colour is different. However, in terms of the sock/tape discussion, it gives specifics as to what has to match although I agree that holds less weight that the entire colour of the kit

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I'd play the match, but I'd also be reporting the team that was supposed to have the spare kit (you should know which team is required to have the spare kit in the competition rules).
The same socks makes it extremely difficult to tell who kicked it out - I've been on the line for this and sometimes it was completely impossible.
I remember being on the line for a ref who, very reluctantly, agreed to play a game on a somewhat clashing kit: he advised the players that it's against his better judgement but he knows everyone is there and ready to play (ref is telling the players he's doing them a favour, this is a good tactic!) and if so much as hears a suggestion of an argument based around the ref/AR getting the teams mixed up, the card will come out immediately. He actually threatened that if the arguments keep going, he'll just abandon because of the kit clash

Shorts I don't really care about, but the socks are a pretty big one, almost as big as the jersey (identical socks are probably worse than 'close' jerseys)

 

[Iain]

I like the way other refs blame other refs. Like the players tell the truth that the ref from last week didn't do certain things.
I try and be easy going about it. Say to the managers. Can you make sure all rings and earrings are taken out. Check with your player pre game please. Less work and checking.

 

[zarathustra]

The teams in my leagues are normally pretty good so you very rarely have any kit clashes.

In terms of pre-match dissent because of kit inspections, I'don't think I've ever had issues asking players to take off/change sock tape or jewellery, aside from some people ladies matches who can't take a piercing out, until you say that they can't play with it in.

I tend to do very laid back kit inspections, I check everything that needs to be checked, but I don't make them line up, I just get them together and have a walk around having a chat with them while doing the checks, and if there is something that needs sorting then a quick "can you just change your sock tape pal?" normally does the trick.

I also mention it to the managers that I will be doing a kit check before hand as well.

the only real problem I've ever had was asking a player to take off a blue long sleeved undershirt that he was wearing under a yellow short sleeved shirt on a very warm April morning. No idea why but he really didn't want to take that under shirt off, and he proceeded to be a belter for the duration of the match, along with the rest of his team

 

[zarathustra]

I like the way other refs blame other refs. Like the players tell the truth that the ref from last week didn't do certain things.

Unfortunately there are referees out there who like to cut their own detail, and in the 3.5 years I've been watching my wife play football I can count the number of kit checks and pitch checks they've had on one hand. And most of those have been on the odd occasion where they haven't had a league appointed ref so have asked me to fill in.

That's not to say that I am the perfect referee, I'm not. And it certainly isn't to say that we should believe a player every time that they say "last weeks ref did/didn't do that".

 

[QuaverRef]

I like the way other refs blame other refs. Like the players tell the truth that the ref from last week didn't do certain things.
I try and be easy going about it. Say to the managers. Can you make sure all rings and earrings are taken out. Check with your player pre game please. Less work and checking.

If you're asking managers to do the check, this is part of the reason 'last weeks ref' is blamed

Looking for shortcuts or 'less work' isn't part of being a referee