A&H

Red card a coach for...?

santa sangria

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Some context:
U15 tournament playoff, tense 0-0, home coach protesting has already got himself a yellow card with 15 to go.

With 10 to go I chose to ignore a “are you f-ing blind” from the home bench - which would have been a great second yellow if no one had confessed, because I’m pretty sure it would have tricked the coach, he wouldn’t have seen the yellow coming for the “senior team coach”. I kinda regret not going through that drama now but at the time I thought it best to manage it by focusing on the players.

And now to the incident in question:

With 2 mins to go the home team scores 1-0. I do what I always do after a goal: circle round the back of the players, check there’s no afters, write it up, and then shepard the players a little - in this case just my presence was enough that all the home players started light jogging towards their half.

Then the home coach (in English, his third language, and a clue he was thinking about me ;) ) shouts: ”stop, slow down, take your time, you don’t have to run.” 3 players stop and start fiddling with shin pads, 5 more slow to a slow walk.

So, can you justify a straight red for the coach?
 
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I would like to hear from someone more experienced but for me common sense would say to tell the players to hurry up. If not caution for delaying the restart of play.

As for the manager I wouldn't be doing anything other than maybe a word that everyone can hear.

If they're still delaying you can of course stop your watch/ add it on.
 
Not me, I'd go for a player or two and also tell them it will be more time added......
 
Just stop the watch and hurry their captain / nearest one up. No need to go looking for a problem to score a karma point
 
Not a red for me. Nor a yellow. Thankfully the laws give clear guidance now as to what is and isn't a send off for team officials. I'm not sure this fits in anywhere.
 
Not a red for me. Nor a yellow. Thankfully the laws give clear guidance now as to what is and isn't a send off for team officials. I'm not sure this fits in anywhere.
I’d agree. I’ve had a look at the LotG and highlighted the relevant bit - it doesn’t seem to be a sending off offence. Verbal offences probably just merit verbal encouragement to players to hurry up (as already mentioned by others)28B91C0F-0CD3-4A55-B532-ACE4088055EC.jpeg
 
So, can you justify a straight red for the coach?

No, and for what exactly?

I think you're right that you missed your chance during the 'are you effing blind' part, but even then I think you did the right thing in ignoring that. As an assessor said to me last season; 'don't go looking for trouble and making it harder for yourself'. I think you'd have a heck of a fall out if you went for the second caution there if the game was active and not in a dead ball situation.
 
Just stop the watch and hurry their captain / nearest one up. No need to go looking for a problem to score a karma point
Great minds think alike.
This is exactly what I did.

Tournament with 25 min halves with the understanding that added time only in exceptional circs. I pointed to my watch here and twice more in the remaining time - 2 home players were cautioned for delay of game in the remaining time. And we played added time.

For additional comedy value, as we reach the end of normal time, away coach is asking for added time, home coach of course shouting it’s not allowed. A right Karsten J!

I’d agree. I’ve had a look at the LotG and highlighted the relevant bit - it doesn’t seem to be a sending off offence. Verbal offences probably just merit verbal encouragement to players to hurry up (as already mentioned by others)View attachment 4403

I was hoping someone would post this. We are on 2019 but it’s the same.

I would have highlighted two different parts of the extract:
“(But are not limited to)”
And
”E.g.”

The examples given of holding on to the ball etc... it’s just a few examples, just happens to be non-verbal. I think it’s way presumptious to assume that line applies only to non-verbal offences... otherwise it would say so! Surely “but are not limited to” suggests more scope?


This is another case that isn’t covered in the laws, and my guess is that this section will get changes. I also guess that (2019 laws only started here a month ago) this might have been a first in my country so I’m interested in what my mentors think.

Bonus: anyone want a YC for lack of respect, or for dissent as the coach was essentially deliberately contradicting my instruction to ”cheat”?

(Not trying to score here, genuinely interested. Bear in mind the YC I gave earlier was the first I’ve given a coach.)

No, and for what exactly?

I think you're right that you missed your chance during the 'are you effing blind' part, but even then I think you did the right thing in ignoring that. As an assessor said to me last season; 'don't go looking for trouble and making it harder for yourself'. I think you'd have a heck of a fall out if you went for the second caution there if the game was active and not in a dead ball situation.

I agree. If I had acted I think I would have waited for the next break in play.
But...
And this is something new to me with cards for coaches... can we only wait before a coach card if there is an advantage situation?

With the “old ask-tell-eject” routine it wasn’t a problem... but is there a problem in law now to wait for a non-advantage break in play to card a coach?
 
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I was hoping someone would post this. We are on 2019 but it’s the same.

I would have highlighted two different parts of the extract:
“(But are not limited to)”
And
”E.g.”

The examples given of holding on to the ball etc... it’s just a few examples, just happens to be non-verbal. I think it’s way presumptious to assume that line applies only to non-verbal offences... otherwise it would say so! Surely “but are not limited to” suggests more scope?


This is another case that isn’t covered in the laws, and my guess is that this section will get changes. I also guess that (2019 laws only started here a month ago) this might have been a first in my country so I’m interested in what my mentors think.
I think you are looking for problems to deal with.
They will come and find you, trust me,there's no need to go looking.
This wouldn't even be tweaking my radar. Deal with the players. Add the time on. Go home. Everyone's happy.
 
I was hoping someone would post this. We are on 2019 but it’s the same.

I would have highlighted two different parts of the extract:
“(But are not limited to)”
And
”E.g.”

The examples given of holding on to the ball etc... it’s just a few examples, just happens to be non-verbal. I think it’s way presumptious to assume that line applies only to non-verbal offences... otherwise it would say so! Surely “but are not limited to” suggests more scope?


This is another case that isn’t covered in the laws, and my guess is that this section will get changes. I also guess that (2019 laws only started here a month ago) this might have been a first in my country so I’m interested in what my mentors think.

Bonus: anyone want a YC for lack of respect, or for dissent as the coach was essentially deliberately contradicting my instruction to ”cheat”?

(Not trying to score here, genuinely interested. Bear in mind the YC I gave earlier was the first I’ve given a coach.)

For me, you did the right thing.

Interesting discussion point you've raised though.

The coach deliberately advising his players to waste time now they're ahead would make my hackles rise but is actually no worse than any of the other "cheating" that is acceptable even at grass roots these days.

The point you make about verbal/non-verbal offences is a valid one though.

As an example, if during a match you heard a coach shout "John, he's your man, - take his legs if you have to!!" what would be your action then?

Doesn't really come under "OFFINABUS" for me, but depending on the temperature of the match and what had gone before, you'd probably be reaching for a card no? :)
 
I think you're right that you missed your chance during the 'are you effing blind' part, but even then I think you did the right thing in ignoring that. As an assessor said to me last season; 'don't go looking for trouble and making it harder for yourself'. I think you'd have a heck of a fall out if you went for the second caution there if the game was active and not in a dead ball situation.

Hmm. In a youth game I'm not ignoring that.

But I fully agree that a caution (let alone a straight send off!) for telling players they don't have to run is well over the top. Perhaps if it was repeated after a warning, but we control the clock and it is the player's actions that would actually delay the match. ("Well, I guess you can thank your coach for this one"--just the same as we caution the player who follows his coach's instructions to run over and statute at a FK.)
 
For me, you did the right thing.

Interesting discussion point you've raised though.

The coach deliberately advising his players to waste time now they're ahead would make my hackles rise but is actually no worse than any of the other "cheating" that is acceptable even at grass roots these days.

The point you make about verbal/non-verbal offences is a valid one though.

As an example, if during a match you heard a coach shout "John, he's your man, - take his legs if you have to!!" what would be your action then?

Doesn't really come under "OFFINABUS" for me, but depending on the temperature of the match and what had gone before, you'd probably be reaching for a card no? :)
I'm keeping that in mind, warning them I've heard it and I'm likely carding the first defender trying to actually take someone's legs as they've made it exceptionally easy because of them shouting to make such a foul. Feels difficult to do anything about the threat and you likely shouldn't as problems will come finding you 😉
 
I would have sent the coach off for the "Are you f***ing blind?" comment if anyone else besides the two of us could hear it. At a minimum, it's dissent so a second caution in this case. However, questioning my eyesight with an f-bomb thrown in would rise to OFFINABUS for me.

As for the players, I'd just tell the captain of the delaying team that I'm adding time for what is occurring, so it really doesn't matter how much they decide to delay. Now if it gets really obvious - like a player sitting down to adjust shinguards or tie a shoe - then I'll consider a caution because it's pretty obvious what's going on by that point.

For the "take his legs out" comment, I'd just be ready to sanction the first instance of this as misconduct and tell the player as the card is produced that it was pretty easy to realize what the intent was since the coach made it easy to understand.
 
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