A&H

Red card?

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On what I saw, that’s not a red (or yellow) for me.

I’m not even convinced its a free kick, but Ive learnt that I struggle to pick a foul from video without multiple ”MOTD” style camera angles.

Possibly because it’s right in front of the benches, it has led the ref to act swiftly & decisively and reach for the red, but maybe a moment’s more thinking time may have been beneficial here.
 
It's a robust challenge, but I'm really struggling to see anything red or even "orange". I think it is one of those that the referee has seen something that hasn't actually happened, something that afflicts most referees from time to time.
 
Yeah, referee has overreacted to that. I don't see a foul here at all - just an attacker who thought the ball would keep moving when the defender had made sure it wouldn't, and the predictable result was that the legs no longer went where the body needed them to.
 
Watched that so many times, even got the rest of the house involved. "We" think the ref saw an over the top on the knee. Can understand how you "see" something in real time, especially in front of the benches too.

Think that's a genuine whoops.
 
I really think we should all consider several things here before second guessing this CR. First, CR is likely refereeing at a higher level than some on here weighing in. 2nd - he is in good position and really close. much closer than what this camera affords BY FAR At best we are about 25-30 yard view and he looks to be about 7 yards or so away. 3rd - he has a better angle than what we can see as the blue player's body is blocking the point of contact.

He has seen something and looks to have NO HESITATION on what is warranted. This is just a guess as this angle and distance is poor but it looks the tackler might have gone studs into the left ankle of the other player. It looks like if that is what he saw, it could have been after contact with the ball but again... just can't tell with this blown up to maximum on my computer. As I am making assumptions (read guesses), I will say that merely getting the ball does not make a challenge "fair" or "legal". If he has seen tackle go studs into the other player's ankle then the ball.... RC at this level of force. Getting the player in the ankle with studs after getting the ball? Could still be a card depending on how he came in, distance, etc FROM THE ANGLE OF THE CR (who had a much better angle than what we have here.
 
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I'd take the opposite view. I think the ref has seen something that is actually there but impossible to see from this camera angle and that far zoomed out.
The video is inconclusive for me.

We have all give those fouls that we clearly see but has everyone up in roar in the technical area and even the opposing coach says that was a fair tackle.
 
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Let's ask this question. You are the VAR and this is the only replay you have, would you recommend a review?
 
one said:
Let's ask this question. You are the VAR and this is the only replay you have, would you recommend a review?
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No, because you can't tell from this if the referee has made a clear and obvious error.

But, that doesn't mean the referee didn't get this horribly wrong. He could have seen some kind of stamping/scraping for a clear RC, or he could have imagined something and brainfa**ed this RC. We will probably never know. The tackler's bench probably know. They were quite muted...?
 
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santa sangria said:
No, because you can't tell from this if the referee has made a clear and obvious error.

But, that doesn't mean the referee didn't get this horribly wrong. He could have seen some kind of stamping/scraping for a clear RC, or he could have imagined something and brainfa**ed this RC. We will probably never know. The tackler's bench probably know. They were quite muted...?
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This is the point I am making. You really can't tell much from this video apart from what it 'may' have been.
 
one said:
Let's ask this question. You are the VAR and this is the only replay you have, would you recommend a review?
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I mean, point number 1, a VAR will be checking this regardless. But let's ignore that - I'd be on the mic asking what he's seen at the very least. Ithink you really need to know that before we can judge if he's wrong or not.

If he answers "the force of the tackle" then I might be thinking about telling him to delay the player leaving so that we can check (obviously if you were actually VAR you'd have more angles you'd then need to consider).

Conversely, if as @santa sangria has suggested, he says that he's seen a stamp or something similar, I'd probably be more willing to just let it go.
 
Here is a point worth mentioning. As referees we of all people should understand that distance and angle are almost everything (knowledge of the lotg and their application notwithstanding). So why are so many ASSUMING that the referee who had a far better angle and was much closer got this wrong? Based on what? A questionable video from greater distance and worse angle? We of all people shouldnt be so quick to be so certain that another official bottled it. We all should remember that things sometimes look very different from different angles (and we have a lousy one here) and that there is a lot of subjectivity in refereeing and it is the opinion of the CR in this game that matters.

Didnt i read about a world cup match long ago where ALL cameras missed a foul or handling that the CR called creating a big stir? A long time later further footage revealed that the CR was correct.
 
The camera angle is poor but given how the ref reacts (straight for the red) and the green number 8, I'd be inclined to believe their reaction suggests the red is correct.
 
Notwithstanding the fact that I can't understand a word of it, the tackle wouldn't merit a check let alone a review. But then again, what does?
 
@Hoosier Ref I disagree with your opinion that the referee had a good angle of view of this incident; he was too deep toward the centre line and should have been about six to seven yards further upfield and, likewise, should have been about three to four yards closer to the touchline. This is especially important when play is directly in front of benches. That being said, I also agree that the referee made the correct decision, not because I think we should "trust the referee to make the right call" but because I think we can see two things which indicate that the right call is made.

The first thing we can see is that the fourth official is in an excellent position to give advice to the referee and appears to do so. You can see that he is touching his stomach and talking (4th officials wear push to talk microphones) and he is likely giving red card over the comms system. Once he sees the referee understands the severity of the situation, he steps back to deal with the other bench.

The second is that the tackler misses the ball with his tackling foot, instead making contact to the attacking player's ankle with his studs. This is a sending off for SFP.
 
GraemeS said:
If he answers "the force of the tackle" then I might be thinking about telling him to delay the player leaving so that we can check (obviously if you were actually VAR you'd have more angles you'd then need to consider).
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All straight send offs are checked by the VAR. (OF course, some may be very quick and obvious, but they are still checked.)
 
There's no VAR here in any case.

Personally I can't see anything warranting a red from this camera angle myself, but the other thing that is concerning me is the reactions all around seem fairly muted. For me, SFP offences usually trigger a reaction of some kind. (NB: I'm not going to say the referee got it wrong)

Still thought it would be an interesting discussion. :)
 
RobOda said:
There's no VAR here in any case.

Personally I can't see anything warranting a red from this camera angle myself, but the other thing that is concerning me is the reactions all around seem fairly muted. For me, SFP offences usually trigger a reaction of some kind. (NB: I'm not going to say the referee got it wrong)

Still thought it would be an interesting discussion. :)
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It's a pity we can't see the other bench. When there's a challenge in that kind of area the bench of the fouled player almost always erupts, but like you say everything seems a little non urgent here.
 
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