A&H

Refs sec's/Closed dates

RegalRef

RegalRef

Politically Incorrect
Just thought I'd gauge a little bit of opinion on here - feeling a little hard done by and wondering if I'm over reacting or have case to feel aggrieved.

Either way I won't be doing anything about it for the obvious reason I don't want to burn my bridges, but I am a man of principal so here goes...

Submitted my closed dates for August and September to all 5 of the refs secs in the various leagues I deal with on the same email mid July.

Games started coming thick and fast beginning of this month. Next week I had a supply League game Tuesday and Thursday, a Sunday League midweek game Wednesday.

I vowed after last season not to do so many games but having closed the first two weeks of the season completely due to holiday I accepted them without question.

Anyway, the Thursday game was cancelled due to one team dropping out of the league before the season began. I was pretty glad to be fair, not just because it saved 3 in 3 days but also because it was a hell of a trek after work and I didn't want to be leaving work early after just having two weeks off.

A week or so later I get an email to say the Tuesday game had re-scheduled to Wednesday. I email the refs sec of that league to tell him I can't do the rearranged game due to having a game on the Wednesday only to get a sarcastic reply stating he would change it 'this time but he doesn't recall an email to close the Wedesday??????'

Now maybe I'm over-reacting but am I really expected to email 4 other refs secs every time I get an appointment from the fifth? I'd be sending about 5 emails a day, and they'd be just as confused as me?!

I understand it must be a difficult job, and I don't envy their task. But really?

I could understand if I was level 4 or above but is this not a bit much?
 
The Referee Store
I'm with you on this one. Never had a problem where I am but have and will turn down appointments especially at short notice.
 
Mintyref said:
I'm with you on this one. Never had a problem where I am but have and will turn down appointments especially at short notice.
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I wouldn't say it was short notice, as I did have plenty of notice for the original appointment. I didn't think it was unreasonable that as I originally had games from this league on the Tuesday and Thursday of this particular week to make other plans on the day in between.
 
Darius said:
Me personally I would be keeping the Supply League game if I was in your situation
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I tend to have an internal promise to myself that I will always honour first come first served wherever possible, regardless of league or level.

Maybe wrong but I think that's fair.
 
As it happens I've just been asked to cover a match tomorrow, this after I'd just 're-stated' my unavailability until the 17th September.
Thinking about it as I have no other plans.
 
I think it all depends on what you want to referee for. If you're just in it to take part and enjoy it then your way is the right way. If you're in it to progress/get promoted then my comment works best.
 
Darius said:
I think it all depends on what you want to referee for. If you're just in it to take part and enjoy it then your way is the right way. If you're in it to progress/get promoted then my comment works best.
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I get your thoughts regarding promotion. I never plan to exceed level 5 for the reasons I hinted at before - regardless of ability, due to work and family commitments I'll never be able to make the commitment and set it high enough in my priorities As required at level 4.
 
Its one of the first things we tell new referees on the course. If you're not available on a certain date, for any reason, including a game from another competition, then tell everyone who might give you a game, that you are no longer available on that date

I only appoint to around 100 games a season but it really pisses me off if I give someone a game and they say they already have one on that date.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Its one of the first things we tell new referees on the course. If you're not available on a certain date, for any reason, including a game from another competition, then tell everyone who might give you a game, that you are no longer available on that date

I only appoint to around 100 games a season but it really pisses me off if I give someone a game and they say they already have one on that date.
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On a weekend I'd agree. An example is that I recently got a district cup game on a Saturday in September and I informed my Saturday league which is both for middles and supply lines, that I have a DC game that day and left that with him. Obviously he could still appoint me to a supply line since it takes priority, but he knows he can't appoint me to a non-supply middle.

That said, I'd disagree for midweek fixtures unless an "available dates/closed dates" email has gone out. My Sunday league recently appointed my to several midweek games. They never previously said that they would be running midweek games since it varies. For two of them I had to give backword.
 
YorkshireReferee said:
On a weekend I'd agree. An example is that I recently got a district cup game on a Saturday in September and I informed my Saturday league which is both for middles and supply lines, that I have a DC game that day and left that with him. Obviously he could still appoint me to a supply line since it takes priority, but he knows he can't appoint me to a non-supply middle.

That said, I'd disagree for midweek fixtures unless an "available dates/closed dates" email has gone out. My Sunday league recently appointed my to several midweek games. They never previously said that they would be running midweek games since it varies. For two of them I had to give backword.
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As long as your District Secretary obtains permission for clubs and referees to participate in the District Cups, you'll generally find that you are left alone once appointed to a District Cup. It is becoming tougher as newer referees (sweeping generalisation) don't seem to appreciate being appointed as ARs, making it tougher to get all games covered. Also a good District Secretary will know who regularly lines on Supply and will not seek to appoint them to Saturday games.
 
oh liner said:
You referee on five leagues? Wow, how many games do you expect to get in one week say?
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I referee on 4. One Sunday league that tends to be a straightforward yes/no to availability, which I choose to do about 50% of weekends, and 3 Saturday/midweek leagues.

The problem with those 3 leagues is that only one will definitely use me if I make myself available - the other two are "higher" levels and consequently seem to be oversubscribed with officials, meaning I'm often not given a match from them on available dates. It makes it very difficult - if I make myself available to all 3 leagues on all available dates, the lower league will tend to snap me up and I've either then lost my chance to referee at a slightly higher level, or have to go back and disappoint the league I rely on for matches if I'm later appointed elsewhere.

I tend to just pick and choose (league A on this Saturday, league B on this one etc.) knowing that there's a good chance I'll end up with no match on "league B" weeks, then accept the occasional midweek appointment on first-come-first-served basis. Except I've now got a busier-than-expected September coming up, as both the other leagues have appointed me on Saturdays I was half expecting to have off. It's a very strange situation!
 
What I used to do (before I became a 4 and choice was removed!) was make a decision on what league I would want to do most, so round here that'd be West Yorkshire League (be that Line in Prem or Middle in lower divisions). I'd give them whatever dates they wanted and if unappointed would then approach other leagues and advise that I was available.

The key though is to shut the dates with your 'main' league as soon as you're appointed.

No one gets annoyed if you give a game back on a date you've already closed a date with them for!
 
It used to drive me around the bend when I gave a referee a game on an open date only for them to say they cannot do it as they have taken a game with another league at the same time. How was I supposed to know if they hadn't told me ...?!

Bottom line is if you have opened a date with any league and you then can't do that date you must close it. It doesn't matter if is for personal reasons and you close it for all, or you take a game on another league in which case you need to close it with all other leagues who play games on that day of the week.
 
oh liner said:
You referee on five leagues? Wow, how many games do you expect to get in one week say?
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Typically 3 over a weekend. They all have different kick off times over a Saturday/Sunday.

Two of them only give me 1 game a month as they are massively oversubscribed refs vs competing teams, 2 give me a couple of games a month and one 3 iver the course of a month.

At the moment though it is a little hectic midweek with so many leagues, but that will stop when the clocks change and it's too dark to finish a midweek game with a 6.30 kick off.

To be fair if I batted back a game I was handed on a date unclosed I would completely agree. I only accepted the Wednesday game after the supply league appointments had gone out and I could see I was free, with it highly unlikely I would get a Wednesday game from supply having already got a Tuesday and Thursday.
 
with my work im constantly closing and opening closed dates ... my main ref sec gets the right arse with me - fortunately he appreciates that I have a living to make and cannot be helped and I do give as much notice as I can
 
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