The Ref Stop

Remuneration

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RustyRef

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Kent Ref said:
I see your argument but there's a big difference between employing somebody and promoting volunteers. I think they are chalk and cheese.

As a previous business owner i hired and fired based on what was best for my business.
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Referees at that level are absolutely not volunteers.
 
The Ref Stop
RustyRef said:
Referees at that level are absolutely not volunteers.
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Hotels are becoming standard now at Level 2. Step 1, it's routine. Even the apparent increase to £300 doesn't justify it. Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.
 
RefGod said:
Hotels are becoming standard now at Level 2. Step 1, it's routine. Even the apparent increase to £300 doesn't justify it. Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.
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That is insane.
 
RefGod said:
Hotels are becoming standard now at Level 2. Step 1, it's routine. Even the apparent increase to £300 doesn't justify it. Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.
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On that basis these refs are more like volunteers.
 
RefGod said:
Hotels are becoming standard now at Level 2. Step 1, it's routine. Even the apparent increase to £300 doesn't justify it. Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.
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Worked with a referee from Eastbourne on a Tuesday night at Torquay. They were stopping in a hotel on the way home.

That was the most extreme.Mostly the appointing, for that level of football, is reasonably sensible from what I have seen although the midweek games are, I imagine, problematic. Having to find a team referees, that is available, not too local, not too far away.

I personally think I would just slog it back and get home at 3-4am. At least I would wake up at home and could work half a day or whatever.
 
Kent Ref said:
On that basis these refs are more like volunteers.
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No. No we are not. As I have said before no registered referee is considered a volunteer. As far as for tax purposes go it is self employed.

On top to the match fee the ref gets mileage @40p a mile. And the hotel is paid for if you need one or rather there is an allowance.

In the example I have above the referee, including travel time (not sleeping) would have earned approx £20 an hour. Driving for 5 hours, 4.5 hours at the Game and 5 hours home. Take out a tank of fuel and it's still £14-15 an hour. There is nothing voluntary about it.
 
RefGod said:
Hotels are becoming standard now at Level 2. Step 1, it's routine. Even the apparent increase to £300 doesn't justify it. Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.
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At all levels the pay of referees need to be looked at. In my CFA it’s £25 for a u16 match where you’ll get all sorts of dissent. When compared the the USA referees you realise how underpayed English referees are. In the US you can payed double for a youth game and get neutral assistants most of the time
 
JamesL said:
No. No we are not. As I have said before no registered referee is considered a volunteer. As far as for tax purposes go it is self employed.

On top to the match fee the ref gets mileage @40p a mile. And the hotel is paid for if you need one or rather there is an allowance.

In the example I have above the referee, including travel time (not sleeping) would have earned approx £20 an hour. Driving for 5 hours, 4.5 hours at the Game and 5 hours home. Take out a tank of fuel and it's still £14-15 an hour. There is nothing voluntary about it.
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This is the example i was quoting:

Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.

£3.80 an hour (£110 / 29).
 
JamesL said:
Worked with a referee from Eastbourne on a Tuesday night at Torquay. They were stopping in a hotel on the way home.

That was the most extreme.Mostly the appointing, for that level of football, is reasonably sensible from what I have seen although the midweek games are, I imagine, problematic. Having to find a team referees, that is available, not too local, not too far away.

I personally think I would just slog it back and get home at 3-4am. At least I would wake up at home and could work half a day or whatever.
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Driving tired = ticking time-bomb.
 
Kent Ref said:
This is the example i was quoting:

Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.

£3.80 an hour (£110 / 29).
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What would the payment for the assistant be at this level?
 
Kent Ref said:
This is the example i was quoting:

Level 2 official from the London area doing a fixture in the South West needs to leave around 10:00, if not before, for a midweek 19:45 game and then will not return back until past 15:00 the next day. £110 for two days work and 10 hours of driving.

£3.80 an hour (£110 / 29).
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You don't get paid to sleep so the fact you (might) stay away, you can't factor that into your calculation.
Driving is not work either although I accept some employments pay for travel time so I can accept factoring that in.

So it's 5 hours driving. 4.5 hours at the game (6pm-10.30pm). And 5 hours driving home = 14.5 hours.

You also get more than £110, because you also get ~£200 in mileage expenses. So it's £300 / 14.5 or £220/14.5 if you want to deduct the £80ish for the fuel. Obviously that figure varies and is probably cheaper for most as I am basing that off a 2 litre diesel engine.

It's the referees choice to leave at 10am... But 10am + 5hrs driving lets say 5.5 with a stop for lunch gets you there at 15:30. There is no expectation for you to be there that early so again you can't factor that into any calculation.

To be fair if anyone is really unhappy with the current arrangements I would gladly swap with them for the privilege of operating at that level.
 
Jed said:
At all levels the pay of referees need to be looked at. In my CFA it’s £25 for a u16 match where you’ll get all sorts of dissent. When compared the the USA referees you realise how underpayed English referees are. In the US you can payed double for a youth game and get neutral assistants most of the time
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That’s not really a fair comparison. Yes by all means look at other Countries, but ….. Also, pay of Referees are looked into by the FA and all County FA’s and Leagues each season. There may be leagues who need to pay more to attract Referees etc, but they have to equate that to what clubs can afford to pay to keep going. Many leagues would fold if they also had to pay for neutral Assistants eg Sunday football.
 
Jed said:
At all levels the pay of referees need to be looked at. In my CFA it’s £25 for a u16 match where you’ll get all sorts of dissent. When compared the the USA referees you realise how underpayed English referees are. In the US you can payed double for a youth game and get neutral assistants most of the time
Click to expand...
That’s not really a fair comparison. Yes by all means look at other Countries, but ….. Also, pay of Referees are looked into by the FA and all County FA’s and Leagues each season. There may be leagues who need to pay more to attract Referees etc, but they have to equate that to what clubs can afford to pay to keep going. Many leagues would fold if they also had to pay for neutral Assistants eg Sunday footballu
 
David G said:
That’s not really a fair comparison. Yes by all means look at other Countries, but ….. Also, pay of Referees are looked into by the FA and all County FA’s and Leagues each season. There may be leagues who need to pay more to attract Referees etc, but they have to equate that to what clubs can afford to pay to keep going. Many leagues would fold if they also had to pay for neutral Assistants eg Sunday footballu
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I agree with this. Not all refs get paid that low. I get paid £28 for an U11s match, most of which are a 10-15 minute drive in my league. If you aren’t happy with what your league pays you, find a different one.
Edit: this is presuming it is possible with your location and level!
 
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