Report a player-ref to the refsec?

[santa sangria]

Should behaviour by referees when they are off duty be reported?

Game yesterday. Tournament. Already seen the blue team earlier in the day. Blue GK had twice raced out to complain to the ref but no action taken. Before my game, blue GK comes to say hello, so I take the chance to tell him in a friendly way not to repeat. He acknowedges.

A few minutes into the game, fairly innocuous but YC foul on s blue player. GK rushes out, pushes offender, shouting, handbags, 20 players and coaches gather for mild handbags. GK mouthing throughout. I physically separate some players, especially the GK, and much Valkeen blasting.

Eventually I isolate offender and GK, tell it’s YC each. Have to tell GK to stop complaining. Cards given. GK stays, complains... 1-2-3 times calmly quiet or it’s second yellow, he doesn’t, so second yellow and red. It’s blatant. It’s an easy decision.

He goes to the bench refuses to leave. I have to tell him again to leave the playing area. Game restarts, I see he’s i the crowd. Tell him to leave, he refuses, standing just off the pitch, complaining, 6-7-8 times I am shouting at him the leavd the playing area. He’s still complaining. Eventually member of local FA escorts him to changing rooms.

After the game, GK reappears, won’t shut up. On FoP after the game. “You pushed me... tell me what I said... you didn’t understand me...” blah blah tournament organizer appears. I explain he’s had two dissent yellows, very straightforward, go to the office, make a complaint if you like. GK repeats “allegations” to organizer. I leave and leave them to it.

Of course, I know him because he’s a ref.

In this tournament we didn’t have to make reports as we would league games about RCs and e.g. refusing to leave the FoP.

I thought his behaviour was disgraceful. Lying to the tournament organiser to discredit a fellow official was the part that irked. Getting a red card, not leaving the FoP, they are kinda “part of football”. But I’ve got this niggle that he should really be reported to our refsec for his behaviour.

What do you think, what’s the code, been here before?

 

[JH]

He goes to the bench refuses to leave. I have to tell him again to leave the playing area. Game restarts, I see he’s i the crowd. Tell him to leave, he refuses, standing just off the pitch, complaining, 6-7-8 times I am shouting at him the leavd the playing area. He’s still complaining. Eventually member of local FA escorts him to changing rooms.

If a player refuses to leave from the touchline do you just refuse to restart the game? What's the protocol?

 

[Justylove]

If a player refuses to leave from the touchline do you just refuse to restart the game? What's the protocol?

Simple. Game does not restart until they leave. If they refuse, you abandon the match. In almost all cases the offender will leave, with their own team often insisting they go as they know they'll be in trouble if they don't!

 

[Big Cat]

What does leaving the vicinity mean in practice?

 

[GraemeS]

What does leaving the vicinity mean in practice?

I would usually say "out of shouting range". So if you're playing on empty parks I'd want him in a car park, in changing rooms or around 100m away. Counterintuntively, if you're in a crowded stadium, he'd have to go less distance away because it's actually harder to distinguish his shouts in a busy, noisy crowd - hence why in the PL, managers and players who are sent off can sit in the directors box and that's not a problem.

 

[one]

What does leaving the vicinity mean in practice?

For me if they keep quiet after being sent off it means they can be anywhere a spectator can be. If they are giving me grief then its out of the park or at least somewhere I can't hear them (usually a friend taking them away for a coffee or chat so that the game can continue).

What do you think, what’s the code, been here before?

Not me but have had similar cases with colleagues. Different associations / counties deal with it differently but I would report it anyway. Let them decide. Even if there is no sanctions this time, his actions are recorded and when there is a next report they can see the pattern.

Our ref association has the general rule of if a player/ref is suspended for a duration (usually only for serious misconduct) then it carries to their refereeing. Things like double yellow or less serious SFP don't. OFFINABUS towards officials do, otherwise on a case by case basis.

Years ago a parent verbally abused a junior referee when he was walking to the dressing room after the game. The problem was the parent was also a regeree. To make it worse , he was still wearing his ref gear after finishing his game on an adjacent field. The referee association gave him a lengthy suspension but he chose to resign anyway.

Last year we had a player (ref) abuse a junior AR for an offside call. He was sent off. The kicker is that the AR was his own son. The abuse was mild. He got 4 weeks from playing and reffing.

On a side note we only allow family members as ARs and he/she has to tell the ref about it.

 

[Justylove]

For me if they keep quiet after being sent off it means they can be anywhere a spectator can be. If they are giving me grief then its out of the park or at least somewhere I can't hear them (usually a friend taking them away for a coffee or chat so that the game can continue).

I have a problem with this. I want them away from the game so that they can have zero further influence on the game, by being sent off, they've lost all rights to take any further part. I've seen/heard of a number of different occasions where having the dismissed player anywhere near has caused problems:

A situation where a group of opposing supporters went round to the dismissed player on the touchline and started fighting with him. This led to players wading in and the game being abandoned.

A situation where the sent off player had been goading an opponent still on the pitch, which has led to that opponent being dismissed for either OFFINABUS or VC against the sent off player

A situation where the sent off player has then committed further misconduct against the match official - I had one this past weekend, dismissed player had made it into the dugout without me seeing him, when I came over to handle a sub, he decided to subject me to a torrent of abuse.

I have only once made an exception which was when I sent two players off for VC, Player A turns to Player B when I send him off and says to him "i'm going to f***ing kill you in the changing room" I sent Player A to the changing room, then as I sent off Player B, I told him he could stand in a certain spot in sight of the FOP, however if I heard a single word from him, I'd let him take his chances in the changing room. 5 minutes after the incident, Player A ran out of the changing rooms, straight across the FOP screaming "i'm going to f***ing kill you, you c***" only to be restrained by his team mates. At that point I told the manager if I saw him again, i would be abandoning the match, and the manager sent one of the substituted players to go sit with him locked in their car.

In my opinion, other than those type of exceptional circumstance if you are allowing the dismissed player anywhere near the FOP, you are giving yourself an unnecessary additional thing to potentially manage and have to take responsibility for any further issues that it causes.

 

[one]

I have a problem with this. I want them away from the game so that they can have zero further influence on the game, by being sent off, they've lost all rights to take any further part. I've seen/heard of a number of different occasions where having the dismissed player anywhere near has caused problems:

And that is why I said if there is any problems, he is going. As you did there are always exception to the rule.

My approach is developed from my experience and is what works for me. In my earlier years I insisted every sent off player leaves out of sight. A number of games were almost abandoned and I lost the respect of many players for being pedantic. In reflection for all those games, my conclusion was I should have left them in the spectator area and only act further if there is any trouble.

While I understand "prevention is better than cure", sometimes you need to consider the cost of prevention. And the fact you are very unlikely to ever need a cure.

 

[santa sangria]

I think it also depends what they've been sent off for. If it was extreme VC or extreme abuse then obvs more likely to want them out of radar range. Whereas for a technical DOGSO probably more happy to have the sent off player behind the fence behind the bench.

Anyway, what about our responsibilities as refs... where does gamesmanship become something the RDO should know?

 

[Justylove]

And that is why I said if there is any problems, he is going. As you did there are always exception to the rule.

My approach is developed from my experience and is what works for me. In my earlier years I insisted every sent off player leaves out of sight. A number of games were almost abandoned and I lost the respect of many players for being pedantic. In reflection for all those games, my conclusion was I should have left them in the spectator area and only act further if there is any trouble.

While I understand "prevention is better than cure", sometimes you need to consider the cost of prevention. And the fact you are very unlikely to ever need a cure.

In your previous post you said:

For me if they keep quiet after being sent off it means they can be anywhere a spectator can be. If they are giving me grief then its out of the park or at least somewhere I can't hear them (usually a friend taking them away for a coffee or chat so that the game can continue)."

At the point that you send a player off, you do not know whether they are likely to become a problem if you let them stay anywhere where a spectator can be. All you are doing is placing yourself in a position where you give yourself another situation to potentially manage if they do become a problem.

Its very simple. If they are in a position where they can in any way interact with either myself, assistants or other players, whether that be physically, verbally or through any form of gesture, then thats the immediate vicinity of the pitch and they are not standing there. If I have to threaten to abandon the match because the player refuses to go, then i don't see that as me being pedantic.

 

[Kes]

My verbal spiel during the handful of red cards that I've issued over the years is always the same.
As I pull out the card and show it, instead of saying "leave the field" or "you're sent off", I always say, "Go back to the changing room please".