A&H

Shouting leave it! (And a little question)

SydTheAussieRef

Level 4 Ref (youth). Just starting out.
Hey guys. I'll set the scene.
Relatively quiet game. I give handball (in my opinion was hand to ball and intentional) and player 1 (not player who gave away the foul) shouts oh ref! Really! So you can't protect yourself? This was not even in a wall just ball about 30 yards out. Anywho. He was pretty gobby, I did my usual, I'll ref you play spiel.....
Within 1 minute he is standing behind an opposition player and as the ball is clearly going to reach the opposition player (loft ball) he very loudly shouts 'leave it'.
Unsporting for sure. I've never had that one and froze for a sec. Would I be right to penalise him for this? What is the action taken after?
Thanks guys.
Edit: Unsporting behaviour, yellow card, 'verbally distracting an opponent'
 
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Self protection is an option in general play...but you consider how long the player had to react. 30 yards out? That's not self protection. 30 yards out, but visibility was blocked until the ball was 2 yards out? Maybe then. Of course you're also assuming it's a self-protective reflex - if the hand comes out to control it, then it's still a free kick.

Shouting 'leave it' to an opponent is USB. The restart is an IFK, as per the final IFK offence in Law 12 (when play is stopped for any reason not previously mentioned to caution/dismiss a player). You cannot award an IFK without a card.

If there was no impact at all upon the opponent, you may get away with having a word about this offence. If the opponent was impacted, then you don't really have a choice....

And given he would probably blow up about that, it may be the sort of player where, if he keeps pushing it, you might need to consider asking the captain for help in keeping him on the field.

Sounds like an O/35 or low grade all age match...
 
Shouting 'leave it' to an opponent is USB. The restart is an IFK, as per the final IFK offence in Law 12 (when play is stopped for any reason not previously mentioned to caution/dismiss a player). You cannot award an IFK without a card.
Just to clarify, as it's come up many times on the forum, it is not an offence itself to shout anything, including 'leave it'. It is an offence if you think it is done so in order to distract an opponent and then a caution for USB and an IFK.
Just to show the other side of this, I know a local player who shouts 'bang' or shrieks when the opposition are attempting a shot - annoys me every time that he gets away with it..!
 
It is an offence if you think it is done so in order to distract an opponent and then a caution for USB and an IFK.

Again, this is one of those offences that can be misinterpreted.
The LOTG don't actually state that the intention to do it has to be there (although the "intention" bit is how I apply this law every time).
The book simply says if the player "verbally distracts an opponent". A player can quite innocently shout "my ball" or "leave it" for the benefit of one or more of his team mates, but if this action clearly and visibly causes an opponent to react/be distracted then you must penalise the shout, irrespective of whether or not you believe it to have been done innocently.
The only difficult part of this scenario is of course if the opponent claims immediately that the shout distracted him. :rolleyes:
I would tend to go along with the opponent in this case unless of course the opponent in question says what 99.9% of players do and whines "Hey ref, he can't shout that" which is then my cue to reply "yes he can, play on". :)
 
I think Kes is right when he says it is the effect of the verbal distraction that counts, not its intent. I suppose that if you judge that a player is shouting to try and distract an opponent (but not succeeding) you could consider it as unsporting behaviour anyway but if I suspected this I would start by warning the player and only go on to a caution if he does it repeatedly.

However I'm not so sure about going along with the opponent on this. If I don't take the player's word when he says, "He pushed me, ref!" why should I take his word for it just because he claims to have been distracted? I would say is up to the referee to judge, just as it is with a challenge. If you judge that a player was distracted, give the offence. But, especially when you have to issue a caution for it, I wouldn't give it just because of an opponent's claims.

@Martiju - why is it that he is always getting away with this? Assuming the shout is actually having a distracting effect, are the referees in your area somehow not aware of the law, or are they just not applying it? I hope that he doesn't get away with it when you're the ref.
 
@Martiju - why is it that he is always getting away with this? Assuming the shout is actually having a distracting effect, are the referees in your area somehow not aware of the law, or are they just not applying it? I hope that he doesn't get away with it when you're the ref.

I don't know the answer to that Peter so it's safer to assume the former. The longer answer relates to the wider discussion - technically accurate - about intent. It may be that they're thinking it doesn't have a distracting effect and are allowing play to go on. However, even in such cases I'd be having a word with him about his behaviour, which can only be with the intent of putting off the opponent.

Oh, and the only times I've ever refereed him it's not happened...it's a team that plays a long way from where I live so I don't see him more than two or three times a season.
 
In amateur leagues I have found that players just haven't been educated about not shouting "ah", "mine", "leave it" etc. Basically refs just haven't bothered.

If the player(s) seem totally oblivious then I tend to verbally warn the first time, and then caution anyone after that. But it is context isn't it? Even in lower amateur leagues, if the offence is blatant, and depending on the tone and situation, then of course reach for the card straight away.
 
In amateur leagues I have found that players just haven't been educated about not shouting "ah", "mine", "leave it" etc. Basically refs just haven't bothered.

If the player(s) seem totally oblivious then I tend to verbally warn the first time, and then caution anyone after that. But it is context isn't it? Even in lower amateur leagues, if the offence is blatant, and depending on the tone and situation, then of course reach for the card straight away.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with shouting "ah", "mine", "leave it" etc. It's only an offence if it distracts an opponent. The form of words used is not the determining factor.
 
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with shouting "ah", "mine", "leave it" etc. It's only an offence if it distracts an opponent. The form of words used is not the determining factor.
I know Peter. The point I was making is that too many referees at lower levels where I work let this offence go for an easy life. I see so many refs who avoid communicating with players at all costs, especially the inconvenience of needing to educate. Unfortunately we had a shortage of officials and know we seem to have a magic combination of legacy refs who don't get scrutinised enough and a lot of young refs who are only trained a little. This kind of offence is one that slips through the net and is then frustrating if you actually to apply the laws...
 
I know Peter. The point I was making is that too many referees at lower levels where I work let this offence go for an easy life.
Really? I have refereed for 10 years and in that time I have cautioned twice for this, once when a player shouted "bang" as his opponent was about to shoot, and once, when a defender screamed his own name every time he challenged for a header; I let the first one go as there was just a possibility that he was "putting a name on it", warned him the second time and booked him the third.

I have heard "leave it", "my ball" etc hundreds of times but have never felt it distracted an opponent so have not cautioned. If you are seeing lots of referees "not bothering" then I suspect that some of this may be that your threshold for determining what does and doesn't constitute distraction may be lower than many of your colleagues.
 
If you are seeing lots of referees "not bothering" then I suspect that some of this may be that your threshold for determining what does and doesn't constitute distraction may be lower than many of your colleagues.

You'd probably be wrong, as you probably haven't seen my leagues, or any lower league football where I am, and you are not inside me head. You probably do not realise that I live in a country famous locally for lack of verbal communication, where football is played, coached and refereed in near silence. If you did realise all this, then I apologise. But please put the kettle on ;)
 
You'd probably be wrong, as you probably haven't seen my leagues, or any lower league football where I am, and you are not inside me head. You probably do not realise that I live in a country famous locally for lack of verbal communication, where football is played, coached and refereed in near silence. If you did realise all this, then I apologise. But please put the kettle on ;)

Yeah, but the above is no kind of argument matey. At the end of the day, if you choose to be secretive about who you are, where you referee and at what level, you can't then cite that as criteria for backing up your point.
How about completing your profile properly so that you're more transparent and so lend a bit of credibility to your opinion on here.

You can't hunt with the fox and run with the hounds........ ;)
 
I know Peter. The point I was making is that too many referees at lower levels where I work let this offence go for an easy life. ..
Perhaps you're the one who's tolerance is too low for this?
I don't think I've ever seen an instance where I was certain an opponent was put out by such a comment (and you're want to err heavily towards giving the player committing the alleged act the benefit of the doubt), and I've only ever seen one instance where I was certain a player was saying it deliberately to put out an opponent. Plenty of occasions where I has suspicions as to the attempt, but any doubt on this one and you're not going to pull out the card.
It's quite rare for a player to do this.
Oh, and you simply cannot go along with the player who claims the shout put him off. Absolutely not. If you can't see the impact, then there's no impact. And I mean a real impact, not just stopping and saying 'come on' for the sake of calling for the card when he wasn't genuinely affected.

Incidentally, my first ever caution was to an U/10 player who kept shouting 'ooglie booglie!' whenever he went in for a tackle :p
 
Yeah, but the above is no kind of argument matey. At the end of the day, if you choose to be secretive about who you are, where you referee and at what level, you can't then cite that as criteria for backing up your point.
How about completing your profile properly so that you're more transparent and so lend a bit of credibility to your opinion on here.

You can't hunt with the fox and run with the hounds........ ;)

LOL. Fair point. I am in Finland. It's 50/50. The organisation is amazing. A lot of great people to work with. Very different football culture. Tiny amount of serious teams and players. Still over 1000 games a week in Helsinki. Quite steep drop off to the hobby leagues. And a steep drop off in ref quality too, I think it is fair to say. Finnish footballers, again this is fair to say, are incredibly quiet (if you have ever seen interviews with Finnish sportspeople...). So, attempting to distract an opponent with verbals tends to stand out a mile when it happens. Finnish referees, also quite fair to say, also surprisingly quiet. If that explains better.

(And I really can't be bothered with the Captain's trolling)
 
:poop:Saying 'maybe your tolerance level is too low' is trolling now?:rolleyes:

If you think that's trolling, santa, then you're pretty much confirming that your tolerance level is too low!

That's the risk of a forum, y'know. That somebody may disagree with you or suggest other ways of approaching a situation. :rolleyes:
 
Calling someone childish is quite childish and trolling after I have already answered your same point. But you carry on ;)
I think my presence here is probably demonstrating my ample tolerance level in the face of your persistent trolling, thanks! Let's go again;)
I'm paid by the word...
 
Ok santa, please explain what was trolling in that post? Evidently I'm too thick to see things with your clarity.

I await with baited breath.

(oh, and that was wordplay.........)
 
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