Strange one

[McRef]

So did an u15s game yesterday. Nice and easy but I had an interesting situation I hadn't seen before.

One large chap was getting a bit pushy in the box. Gave 2 freekicks against him at attacking corners. However the third time he was looking at the ball and as he adjusted his position he came into contact with someone. Without looking he pushed the player very deliberately. However it was his own team mate. It was very obvious he wasn't aware it was his own teammate. Due to the obvious intent could I have given a free kick against him for this?
I didn't but thought it could be an interesting one.

 

[Ref Luke 2203]

I believe you could give an IDFK for endangering safety of a player if the push was deliberate and it did endanger his team mate. Cant give a DFK as its not a foul against the opposition and its not VC.

 

[JamesL]

I believe you could give an IDFK for endangering safety of a player if the push was deliberate and it did endanger his team mate. Cant give a DFK as its not a foul against the opposition and its not VC.

Not endangering safety. This is a red card offence.

Playing in a dangerous manner is the one you're looking for.

 

[one]

So did an u15s game yesterday. Nice and easy but I had an interesting situation I hadn't seen before.

One large chap was getting a bit pushy in the box. Gave 2 freekicks against him at attacking corners. However the third time he was looking at the ball and as he adjusted his position he came into contact with someone. Without looking he pushed the player very deliberately. However it was his own team mate. It was very obvious he wasn't aware it was his own teammate. Due to the obvious intent could I have given a free kick against him for this?
I didn't but thought it could be an interesting one.

From what you say i'd say you didn't think it was VC. But do you think what he did was unsporting (includes reckless)? if yes, stop the game (if no advantage), issue a yellow and restart with IFK.

 

[Ref Luke 2203]

Not endangering safety. This is a red card offence.

Playing in a dangerous manner is the one you're looking for.

Agreed. Apologies, poor wording there but that was what I meant.

 

[Russell Jones]

Personally I'd be extremely wary about penalising a player for 'carelessly' pushing a team mate in this way. So long as nothing violent occurred then your opinion that he was unaware who he was pushing is a fairly flimsy justification for giving a FK ... especially if that FK potentially lost him a goal scoring opportunity!

 

[Big Cat]

Personally I'd be extremely wary about penalising a player for 'carelessly' pushing a team mate in this way. So long as nothing violent occurred then your opinion that he was unaware who he was pushing is a fairly flimsy justification for giving a FK ... especially if that FK potentially lost him a goal scoring opportunity!

Yeh... clever 's don't tend to fair too well!

 

[AlexF]

Cant give a DFK as its not a foul against the opposition and its not VC.

Page 109 of 18/19 Laws of the game read:

If the ball is in play and a player commits an offence inside the field of play against:
• an opponent – indirect or direct free kick or penalty kick
• a team-mate, substitute, substituted or sent off player, team official or a match official – a direct free kick or penalty kick

So... you can certainly give a DFK in this situation.

 

[one]

Page 109 of 18/19 Laws of the game read:



So... you can certainly give a DFK in this situation.

The heading for that is "Restart of play after fouls and misconduct"
My understanding is that a careless push against a team mate is neither a foul nor a misconduct. So the OP can only be DFK if it's misconduct like say VC or Spitting.

 

[AlexF]

The heading for that is "Restart of play after fouls and misconduct"
My understanding is that a careless push against a team mate is neither a foul nor a misconduct. So the OP can only be DFK if it's misconduct like say VC or Spitting.

Your understanding is a bit off -- talk to your local education officer to get it clarified.

The Law, though, is clear, a player commits an offence against a team-mate.

 

[one]

Your understanding is a bit off -- talk to your local education officer to get it clarified.

The Law, though, is clear, a player commits an offence against a team-mate.

So you are saying a careless push against a team mate is a direct free kick offence and that is clear in law. Correct?

Edit: and let's just say my local education Officer comes to me for law clarification

 

[Hoosier Ref]

Doesn't sound to fit PIADM and the act of a push albeit deliberate, as described does not sound to "threaten injury". Although a push is a DFK it is not a foul unless committed against an opponent. It can be misconduct if committed against a teammate (i.e. VC) but that doesn't sound to be the case either. Ultimately, have a word with the lad and let him know that he appears to be playing American football and is racking up the fouls and if he continues he will be going in the book for PI. No need to try to get creative in my opinion. About the only thing you have latitude on is UB which is fairly open ended but I feel you get on shaky ground deeming anything that irritates you to be UB (granted I'd be irritated with the player but emotion/irritation is not how I do business)

PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER
Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.

 

[Peter Grove]

My understanding is that a careless push against a team mate is neither a foul nor a misconduct.

I'm wondering where you're getting this understanding from. Neither fouls nor misconduct are defined in the Laws of the Game so there's nothing there to tell us what those terms mean. Up to 2016, there was a section that said:

The following conditions must be met for an offence to be considered a foul:
• it must be committed by a player
• it must occur on the field of play
• it must occur while the ball is in play

This was removed in 2016, partly to allow for the provision that fouls could could now take place outside the field of play but even if we remove that bit, that would not preclude an offence against a team mate being considered a foul. Also, the section on page 109 of the 18/19 Laws, although it has a heading about fouls and misconduct, goes on to talk about 'offences' against a team mate being punished by a direct free kick. So if a push on a team mate is neither a foul, nor misconduct (and if it's not covered by this section then it isn't an offence) what is it? There's no other term in the Laws that I can think of, that would be applicable.

My understanding of the law is that a push on a team mate, depending on its exact nature, would be considered (potentially) as an offence and if so, the provisions of page 109 would apply. Now, I do think that for a push on a team mate to be penalised, it would have to be of a fairly egregious nature but as far as I'm concerned, once the referee has decided that it is an offence against a team mate that deserves to be punished, the restart should be a direct free kick.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I like this question.

Can we take it a step further and replace the push with, a reckless tackle? Hard to picture I accept, but, blue and red about to slide into challenge yet blue (lets call him Roy Keane) is also in hot pursuit, blue emerges with ball from the first challenge yet is wiped out recklessly by Keane
I think I would just play on?
a tackle which, had he done it on the red player, we would certainly be awarding the foul and more than likely a card.

 

[santa sangria]

I like this question.

Can we take it a step further and replace the push with, a reckless tackle? Hard to picture I accept, but, blue and red about to slide into challenge yet blue (lets call him Roy Keane) is also in hot pursuit, blue emerges with ball from the first challenge yet is wiped out recklessly by Keane
I think I would just play on?
a tackle which, had he done it on the red player, we would certainly be awarding the foul and more than likely a card.

If it’s reckless, it’s reckless. If you’ve decided that, you should act.

Seems like you want to ignore a reckless challenge because e.g. The fouled player isn’t going to ask for a DFK/card, it will be difficult to sell, and it’s Royston (not that kind of player).

Context is everything of course.

 

[JamesL]

Sorry to rain on everyone parade but law 12 says:

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following
offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:

Again the definition for reckless is:


• Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to,
or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned

A "foul" against a team mate can only be a VC or a PIADM offence

You can only move to p.109 once you have determined the offence from the earlier pages.

So now we know it can only really be 1 of 2 offences restarts are:

Piadm = idfk
Vc = dfk

 

[JamesL]

There are other offences I suppose such as Aggressive attitude but this, usually, occurs with ball out of play but if ball in play and no violence I would expect that to be a direct restart too.

 

[Big Cat]

Sorry to rain on everyone parade but law 12 says:

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following
offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:

Again the definition for reckless is:


• Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to,
or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned

A "foul" against a team mate can only be a VC or a PIADM offence

You can only move to p.109 once you have determined the offence from the earlier pages.

So now we know it can only really be 1 of 2 offences restarts are:

Piadm = idfk
Vc = dfk

I can't envisage ever considering PIADM, so it's gonna take Lee Bowyer and Kieran Dyer to be teammates again before I'll be drawn into action

 

[Kes]

So did an u15s game yesterday. Nice and easy but I had an interesting situation I hadn't seen before.

One large chap was getting a bit pushy in the box. Gave 2 freekicks against him at attacking corners. However the third time he was looking at the ball and as he adjusted his position he came into contact with someone. Without looking he pushed the player very deliberately. However it was his own team mate. It was very obvious he wasn't aware it was his own teammate. Due to the obvious intent could I have given a free kick against him for this?
I didn't but thought it could be an interesting one.

Difficult to gage without being there, but based on what you've written, I've formed the image of a well-built "bully" of a player who has no qualms with aggressively manhandling a team mate in order to achieve his intention.

For me, whistle, Yellow for USB and restart with IDFK.

 

[JamesL]

Difficult to gage without being there, but based on what you've written, I've formed the image of a well-built "bully" of a player who has no qualms with aggressively manhandling a team mate in order to achieve his intention.

For me, whistle, Yellow for USB and restart with IDFK.

Of course that is an option too..

Idfk for stops play to issue a caution for.something that is not in law..

Nice work kes. That works well for this scenario too..