Junior/Youth Taking before the whistle & CAR issues

[SLI39]

Two points from the weekend:

Although I believe I had a reasonable game (prospects not much helped by the elements, an increasingly sticky pitch, and my haphazard tearing of a tenner right down the middle while exchanging cash...), one or two issues did arise.

1) Towards the end of the match, I had to disallow an away goal (2-0 to home team at the time) for offside. I hadn't seen the flag till very late, which meant players were already celebrating/retreating to halfway, and then I had to confirm with the CAR that he had indeed flagged for that reason. However, since I had a sizeable distance to run to get into position (with arm raised, yet no whistle blown), I took my eye off the free-kick for a brief moment. The next thing I know, the ball has been launched up the pitch, an attacker is chasing it, and I'm sprinting in that direction! In retrospect, I think I should have ordered a retake, as I had no way of knowing the kick was taken legally etc. That aside, is this a scenario where the kick would always be on the whistle for you? I've read on here that referees have been known to ask the keeper/defender to wait for them while they retreat. I'll remember that next time!

2) This may be controversial, but what are your thoughts on whether CARs should receive a small proportion of the referee's match fee, qualified or not? Obviously this is unlikely to be feasible at an official level, but I often feel the number of times you look to them for throw-ins, offside etc. is enough to warrant a token gesture. Some are more amenable than others, of course! And yes, they can be more hindrance than help on occasion.

 

[oh liner]

Some club liners do get paid, if they don't that's down to the clubs mate. Show them your appreciation before, during and after the game. It goes a long way.

 

[Markt]

Two points from the weekend:

Although I believe I had a reasonable game (prospects not much helped by the elements, an increasingly sticky pitch, and my haphazard tearing of a tenner right down the middle while exchanging cash...), one or two issues did arise.

1) Towards the end of the match, I had to disallow an away goal (2-0 to home team at the time) for offside. I hadn't seen the flag till very late, which meant players were already celebrating/retreating to halfway, and then I had to confirm with the CAR that he had indeed flagged for that reason. However, since I had a sizeable distance to run to get into position (with arm raised, yet no whistle blown), I took my eye off the free-kick for a brief moment. The next thing I know, the ball has been launched up the pitch, an attacker is chasing it, and I'm sprinting in that direction! In retrospect, I think I should have ordered a retake, as I had no way of knowing the kick was taken legally etc. That aside, is this a scenario where the kick would always be on the whistle for you? I've read on here that referees have been known to ask the keeper/defender to wait for them while they retreat. I'll remember that next time!

In my game yesterday I cautioned an attacker for an incident in the goal area when the ball had gone out of play. When I'd shown the yellow card I started to run to half way for the goal kick, telling the GK loudly to "wait for the whistle please keeper" As I was approaching half way I looked back and saw him running towards the ball, so I stopped and again shouted to him to "wait for the whistle please!" He stopped and then restarted and kicked it just before I got to half way. As I got to half way the ball arrived next to me, meaning that I had several players running towards me because I was in the drop zone.
When I blew the whistle again I then had players moaning all around about not letting the game flow! That meant I had to hold the game up again to run back to caution him! Again the kick was on the whistle, and this time he waited. It was about the only time the GK actually managed to kick the ball properly all game! The rest of the time he kept scuffing it.
I always tell them if I want them to hold the kick taken until I'm ready. Just make sure you do it loud enough for other people to hear so they know why he's waiting. They may even listen to you occasionally!

 

[lincs22]

2) This may be controversial, but what are your thoughts on whether CARs should receive a small proportion of the referee's match fee, qualified or not? Obviously this is unlikely to be feasible at an official level, but I often feel the number of times you look to them for throw-ins, offside etc. is enough to warrant a token gesture. Some are more amenable than others, of course! And yes, they can be more hindrance than help on occasion.

Not a good idea, for a number of reasons:
1. What happens when next week's ref doesn't give them anything! Consistency?
2. What happens if one is crap and one is good - pay them both equally?
3. The fee is yours, the clubs are mandated to provide CAR and a league fine should follow if they don't.
4. If a league official or FA official saw you paying the CAR, problems could follow - are you bribing them?

Best solution, if they are any good buy them a drink in the bar afterwards. No issues follow from that.

 

[Kes]

2) This may be controversial, but what are your thoughts on whether CARs should receive a small proportion of the referee's match fee, qualified or not? Obviously this is unlikely to be feasible at an official level, but I often feel the number of times you look to them for throw-ins, offside etc. is enough to warrant a token gesture. Some are more amenable than others, of course! And yes, they can be more hindrance than help on occasion.

Absolutely not.

1. With the match fee being so small anyway (£25?) a "small portion of it" translates to a sum whereby the CAR would probably think you were taking the piss if you offered it.

2. It's actually in the club's own interests to nominate a person/sub to act as CAR to assist you with the basics.

3. It's been known, certainly during my matches, for the CAR to change/hand the flag to somebody else two or three times during the course of the match.

More hassle than it's worth.

 

[SLI39]

Thanks for all your comments, and I must submit to the general consensus on the question of paying CARs! I hadn't necessarily considered all the implications and was essentially just voicing an incipient thought, but it's rendered moot by the fact that I cannot foresee a time where such an arrangement would be put in place. I suppose one argument is that by paying them you provide an incentive for all to raise their standards to that of the most reliable and to receive adequate training. However, whether it's the clubs paying extra or subtracting from the referee's fee, it's difficult not to think that anything less than £5 per assistant is too trivial a reward to gain traction. For now, as mentioned above, let's continue to show our gratitude in word and manner.

 

[SLI39]

In my game yesterday I cautioned an attacker for an incident in the goal area when the ball had gone out of play. When I'd shown the yellow card I started to run to half way for the goal kick, telling the GK loudly to "wait for the whistle please keeper" As I was approaching half way I looked back and saw him running towards the ball, so I stopped and again shouted to him to "wait for the whistle please!" He stopped and then restarted and kicked it just before I got to half way. As I got to half way the ball arrived next to me, meaning that I had several players running towards me because I was in the drop zone.
When I blew the whistle again I then had players moaning all around about not letting the game flow! That meant I had to hold the game up again to run back to caution him! Again the kick was on the whistle, and this time he waited. It was about the only time the GK actually managed to kick the ball properly all game! The rest of the time he kept scuffing it.
I always tell them if I want them to hold the kick taken until I'm ready. Just make sure you do it loud enough for other people to hear so they know why he's waiting. They may even listen to you occasionally!

Thanks, that is actually a very instructive example. The moans when you pull it back are inevitable. One reason I didn't stop on this occasion was that I didn't really want to penalise a team who actually got on with kicks from the defensive half! And every game deserves fluency of action, provided you're aware and in charge of what is happening. In my example, it was debatable whether the whistle was necessary, yet as there had been a delay while I consulted the linesman, they didn't give me enough time to run back. In general on restart: for resuming after substitutions, after having stopped the game for any other reason, ceremonial set pieces, or for hurrying a player up, I use the whistle.

 

[HRW]

I often feel the number of times you look to them for throw-ins, offside etc. is enough to war

for club assistants what's your "etc"? Throw ins for direction please if I ask you (gesture), off sides for alignment please. Nothing else. Not interested in you wanting fouls or anything else.

 

[Kes]

for club assistants what's your "etc"? Throw ins for direction please if I ask you (gesture), off sides for alignment please. Nothing else. Not interested in you wanting fouls or anything else.

Same as me.
Offside indication flag (I'll make the call) and direction of throw-in only. Anything else is just madness.

 

[SLI39]

Sorry for the confusion; by the 'etc.' I meant all instances of in/out of play. In those cases, however, I don't tell them before the game to indicate direction only when they receive a gesture from me because that reduces accuracy in the event that I am unsure. Hence, there will be maybe one or two a game where I overrule because I'm certain the other way, four or five where I'm unsure and therefore accede to their flag, one or two where neither is sure and I make a quick logical guess; and the rest of the time the decisions coincide.
Also, they can be asked to keep a vigilant eye on foul throws (feet off the ground usually) where I referee, so that the official can concentrate on arms and players challenging.
Then you'll get the dreaded goal-line decisions, but most are sensible enough not to get involved in those ones.

Some of the more unhelpful examples:
As a much younger referee, I had one guy who overruled against his own team (leading something like 12-0 at the time) and pretty much compelled me publicly to award a penalty (for consolation?); I don't think I was called up again after that, unsurprisingly.
Another time, I blew for a very dangerous free kick just outside the area. Some debate, but most accepted foul had not occurred in box. Linesman on that side was aghast, and when I went over to calm him down and tell him it was a free kick, having assumed it was a penalty he changed his tune with remarkable speed!