A&H

Tight game turns on a popular flag for GK handball

santa sangria

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Top of the table clash. Two U17 teams that are averaging 6 goals a game. But this one is as tight as a fish's you know what. Match control is good. One yellow for a tactical foul. A couple of final warnings. One lad thinks he's on the telly and wants to stand in front of every free kick. The game is fast, and both GKs can kick well. I am doing a lot of up and down (over 8km total;)).

Deep into the second half. I hear my name and turn to see AR1 flagging. It's up, hard to tell if it's a-wagging or just up. I stop the game, with the ball in the home GK's hands. AR1 tells me that 45 seconds ago the GK handled the ball outside the area as he kicked from the hand. Since then, the ball has been up the other end, and is now back.

I ask AR1 to explain and he tells me it was obvious and he is sure. I feel it would be extremely pernicious to go back for the foul after such a long extended phase(s) of active play. So, I thanked him for flagging but I call a drop ball, to, in effect, give the ball straight back to the keeper to carry on. So, I turn to run. From behind me the keeper kicks. I turn to see the flag go up again and waggle.

I stop the game again, go to the AR, he says the keeper has handled again, I give the DFK, explain to the players, away team scores, with a lovely up and over to the near post, palmed in by the keeper!

Game ends 0-1.

After the game AR1 tells me that he verbally warned the GK after the third time, and the first flag was the fourth time he thought it was handball! If he had told me that I would certainly have given the DFK at first flag instead of the drop ball.

What did I learn? I know as an AR, and I should have remembered here, how frustrating it is when your ref doesn't notice your signal for 1min plus. I should have factored that in. It is a good feeling when the ref acts on your flag. I learnt that, no matter how late you see the flag, if there was an offence (and I trust my colleague to tell me if there was) then you should act accordingly and not hedge.
 
The Referee Store
If the AR was the only one noticing (no players shouting etc), maybe he should have kept the flag down. Also, if this happened as much as the AR seem to think, he should have told you about it during half time. If he did, you could have had a quick word with the keeper on the way out, telling him that there have been some incidents and ask him to make sure he stays within the box when releasing to avoid any silly freekicks.
 
Morten said:
If the AR was the only one noticing (no players shouting etc), maybe he should have kept the flag down. Also, if this happened as much as the AR seem to think, he should have told you about it during half time. If he did, you could have had a quick word with the keeper on the way out, telling him that there have been some incidents and ask him to make sure he stays within the box when releasing to avoid any silly freekicks.
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Yes. I was quite surprised after the game when he told me that he hadn't told me earlier about the repeat offences.
I am still glad he flagged though
 
If the assistant is determined to penalise this he needs to realise that the referee is never going to see the flag unless play very quickly comes down that end. So, assuming buzzers aren't being used, he should be screaming as loud as his lungs will allow him at the referee to get his attention.

Years ago I did a game with Andy Halliday, the Premier League assistant who famously, and incorrectly, penalised Pepe Reina for handling the ball outside of the area from a drop kick. The opponents scored, Andy was suspended and then faced a prolonged period in the Football League.

His pre-match instructions was along the lines of if you think the keeper took the ball out of the area on a drop kick don't be a c**t like me and keep your flag down ...!!
 
Hmm. Couple of coaching points:
1) Player runs to every free kick to stand on the ball. What did you do about that? No card? Stern warning? did he continue after the warning?
2) Point for all AR's - if it's a flag that needs to be seen then do whatever it takes to get the referee's attention. As the AR on the opposite side, draw the referee's attention to the other flag.

3) How is your positioning? Are you wide enough that the AR's are more or less in your peripheral vision? Where did the keeper's first kick land - which side of halfway?

4) Try to avoid the keeper releasing the ball behind your back - lots of things can happen behind your back. Move upfield quickly and try to have the keeper in your view. Not always possible, especially when you're retreating from a DB

5) I wonder if it would have been worthwhile having a chat to the keeper after the first flag

6) I also wonder if the keeper was really carrying it over or just releasing it on the line. A release on the line can mean the ball is a yard or so out by the time it's kicked. Again, AR's problem, not yours.
 
i worked with a ref a few weeks back who included in his pre match very specific instruction pertaining to GK handling outside the area on drop kicks.
Put simply, dont bring it to my (the refs) attention unless it happens more than once AND there are complaints from the opposition
 
richard ramjane said:
i worked with a ref a few weeks back who included in his pre match very specific instruction pertaining to GK handling outside the area on drop kicks.
Put simply, dont bring it to my (the refs) attention unless it happens more than once AND there are complaints from the opposition
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Only thing worse than an overly picky ref, is an overly picky assistant.
 
richard ramjane said:
i worked with a ref a few weeks back who included in his pre match very specific instruction pertaining to GK handling outside the area on drop kicks.
Put simply, dont bring it to my (the refs) attention unless it happens more than once AND there are complaints from the opposition
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:wall:
:wall::wall:
 
I got told once that if it is a very hard decision to call, ignore and if it continues to happen several times, then bring it to the refs attention and that he would go and have a word with the GK . If it is clear that the ball was released outside the box, let off once and then bring to refs attention. 3rd time DFK. Obviously in some situations this varies but works well in youth football and aids match control
 
someone on here (cant remember who, sorry) recommended that as an AR, if you notice a keeper getting close to doing it repeatedly, then a quiet word with the left back would be in order. "just let your keeper know hes getting close to the edge with his drop kicks please fella" or words to that effect.
 
Will Triffitt said:
I got told once that if it is a very hard decision to call, ignore and if it continues to happen several times, then bring it to the refs attention and that he would go and have a word with the GK . If it is clear that the ball was released outside the box, let off once and then bring to refs attention. 3rd time DFK. Obviously in some situations this varies but works well in youth football and aids match control
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I wouldn't really want my AR to be wasting time to call me over for something like that.....if it's clearly outside, then call it. Why complicate things?
 
Ok to warn a couple of times....but then you flag for it.

If the referee fails to notice it, that is a failing on the part of the referee.....normally poor positioning.
A quick glance to the relevant AR while the ball is in flight......not that hard really.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Hmm. Couple of coaching points:
1) Player runs to every free kick to stand on the ball. What did you do about that? No card? Stern warning? did he continue after the warning?
2) Point for all AR's - if it's a flag that needs to be seen then do whatever it takes to get the referee's attention. As the AR on the opposite side, draw the referee's attention to the other flag.

3) How is your positioning? Are you wide enough that the AR's are more or less in your peripheral vision? Where did the keeper's first kick land - which side of halfway?

4) Try to avoid the keeper releasing the ball behind your back - lots of things can happen behind your back. Move upfield quickly and try to have the keeper in your view. Not always possible, especially when you're retreating from a DB

5) I wonder if it would have been worthwhile having a chat to the keeper after the first flag

6) I also wonder if the keeper was really carrying it over or just releasing it on the line. A release on the line can mean the ball is a yard or so out by the time it's kicked. Again, AR's problem, not yours.
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1. I gave him a final warning and he stopped.
2. Very rare to see the opposite assistant flag. It would also help if there was a specific signal for this.
3. Having just spoken to the keeper, I am sprinting for left midfield while having a quick look back over my right shoulder at the keeper. Balls landing just over half way so when they land I am look from wide left with the AR in question behind me.
4. Yeah. This is the learning here. But also I wouldn't do a DB like this again.
5. I did. When I gave the DB. That is why it is so incredulous that he did it again!
6. Well, experienced assistant. I trust him. Especially as he explained after the game that it was already 4 and then 5 times!
 
Padfoot said:
Ok to warn a couple of times....but then you flag for it.

If the referee fails to notice it, that is a failing on the part of the referee.....normally poor positioning.
A quick glance to the relevant AR while the ball is in flight......not that hard really.
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Just hope the assistant doesn't do what one of mine did once. My prematch used to say tell the keeper he's getting close, seemed like common sense. 10 minutes in I (and most of the pitch) hear the bench side assistant shout "keeper, you were miles outside on that kick, stay in your area" ...!!

Talk about bringing attention upon yourself .....
 
santa sangria said:
1. I gave him a final warning and he stopped.
2. Very rare to see the opposite assistant flag. It would also help if there was a specific signal for this.
3. Having just spoken to the keeper, I am sprinting for left midfield while having a quick look back over my right shoulder at the keeper. Balls landing just over half way so when they land I am look from wide left with the AR in question behind me.
4. Yeah. This is the learning here. But also I wouldn't do a DB like this again.
5. I did. When I gave the DB. That is why it is so incredulous that he did it again!
6. Well, experienced assistant. I trust him. Especially as he explained after the game that it was already 4 and then 5 times!
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Cool, good to hear. I'm not so sure that mirroring a foul flag tends to be the best way to go - I figure it can be a bit confusing. But even just calling the ref's name and pointing to the other AR would help. Basically, I do think the AR doesn't have a responsibility to help ensure the referee doesn't miss the other AR's signal. Really there's no way to do it that isn't messy!

I've been in a similar situation myself, missed a flag for this when play went up the other end. By the time you see the flag you're in a lose-lose situation.
 
Here is the states, we are taught to be assistants, not insistent referees! ;)

AR should have spoke to you sooner, and other AR should be mirroring to help out on a flag up that long! :)
 
RustyRef said:
If the assistant is determined to penalise this he needs to realise that the referee is never going to see the flag unless play very quickly comes down that end. So, assuming buzzers aren't being used, he should be screaming as loud as his lungs will allow him at the referee to get his attention.

Years ago I did a game with Andy Halliday, the Premier League assistant who famously, and incorrectly, penalised Pepe Reina for handling the ball outside of the area from a drop kick. The opponents scored, Andy was suspended and then faced a prolonged period in the Football League.

His pre-match instructions was along the lines of if you think the keeper took the ball out of the area on a drop kick don't be a c**t like me and keep your flag down ...!!
Click to expand...
100% this. Having been tortured by an NAR who did this to me on the biggest game I has ever refereed, my pre match now includes "unless it is stupidly and obviously outside, do not flag. If you do put the flag up scream my name until I see you. I won't be happy so you better be 200% correct"
 
...Have to say... these couple of posts make me feel much better.
Bonus point: In this case my AR actually had a minor speech impediment that affected his ability to shout loud enough.

The again: "do not flag unless... it is stupidly..." is perhaps a little LWR!
I think an instruction to verbally warn makes sense in lower level football.
 
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