A&H

VC or C1 (AA)

Russell Jones

RefChat Addict
Recent match incident. I was on the line with a clear view of what happened.

Green team trying to run down the clock at end of game. Green player gives away a FK and then, briefly, picks up the ball, starts jogging back and lobs ball to White team (not a clever thing to do but we've all seen it a million times).

White player takes offense and forcibly shoulder barges Green player in the back, knocking him to the floor. Two schools of thought post game .. either a) it's the same kind of thing as a strong shove in the chest .. for which a Caution would normally suffice or b) it's a cowardly cheap shot which could have more serious consequences because the Green player wouldn't have seen it coming.

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C1 SP could also be argued.
The golden question was did he use excessive force and a show of brutality towards his opponent? if yes VC. If no then AA (or SP maybe).
 
C1 SP could also be argued.
The golden question was did he use excessive force and a show of brutality towards his opponent? if yes VC. If no then AA (or SP maybe).
Cowardly shots like that should always desire the worst punishment like a sucker punch!
 
Cowardly shots like that should always desire the worst punishment like a sucker punch!

I dont disagree. But the force still has to be a determining factor in the outcome. You can argue any force is excessive - and thats okay. But if its a small push/shove am I going to show a red? Probably not.
 
I could defend either a yellow or a red, but my natural inclination is that if it's a blindside hit with enough force to put the bloke on the deck then that's violent conduct.
 
Yeah, I think it's pretty force dependent, but if it was genuinely hard enough to know him to the floor, then it should probably be red.

Any thoughts on a caution for the instigator as well? You could argue delaying the restart, or just general unsporting play?
 
Yeah, I think it's pretty force dependent, but if it was genuinely hard enough to know him to the floor, then it should probably be red.

Any thoughts on a caution for the instigator as well? You could argue delaying the restart, or just general unsporting play?
Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I'm with Graeme on this one, A red for the offender and a yellow for the instigator would have been my shout. It didn't help that it was right in front of the benches so everyone saw it clearly and thus was going to cause uproar however the ref played it!!
 
VC for me because violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball regardless of whether contact is made. As I picture the incident,the offender has
forcibly shoulder barges
and the affect on the opponent is
knocking him to the floor
. Even if the force isn't excessive, the brutality in such a challenge convinces me it's a red.
 
@Russell Jones - as there were two schools of thought - what was the outcome?
I support all yellow and red calls here but I have trouble with the reasoning. I have a scenario to play out.
My scenario I think is relevant to the force point.
Keeper plays a long ball to attacker. He is looking up at the ball as it's coming down to him to control or head. Defender deliberately "forcibly barges him in the back forcing him to the floor. "
Those in the red camp - still red? If not what would be the difference in thought process as to your approach?
I think the argument there would be that in that situation, you'd be sending him off for SFP rather than VC. And the criteria are certainly a little different if players are challenging for a ball.
 
This is why I added in the word deliberate - to give an indication that they havent even attempted a challenge for the ball.

I think that the force is important factor still i.e. is there enough force to knock the player to the ground.

Did the referee share his.l thoughts on why he went with a yellow only?
 
Red all day every day- pre meditated act off the ball. That is ignoring the fact it was blindside. You can break someone's neck like that.
 
I've always thought that if an 'afters' knock a player to the ground, then that's a good case for VC. Even pushing and shoving.

Only a rule of thumb though - eg sometimes the player may be a bit off balanced.

But a charge in the back with enough force to flatten somebody? Unless it was actually fairly minor, it sounds like a red is most likely.
 
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