A&H

Where do you stand on managers approaching you

spuddy1878

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What is your views/opinions on this.

If a manager approaches you lets say like Ancelotti yesterday, he seemed very calm, didn't seem aggressive and didn't seem to be swearing (obviously without hearing the conversation we cant be 100% sure)

If someone approaches you at the final whistle and wants a chat are you approachable or are you a 100% no chance.
 
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What is your views/opinions on this.

If a manager approaches you lets say like Ancelotti yesterday, he seemed very calm, didn't seem aggressive and didn't seem to be swearing (obviously without hearing the conversation we cant be 100% sure)

If someone approaches you at the final whistle and wants a chat are you approachable or are you a 100% no chance.
Depends on the context and the level of game.

In a game with lots of spectators I'd be asking to speak in the changing rooms.

If it's a quick question to clarify something like a dismissal for OFFINABUS as an example where the manager might not have heard what was said then a quick clarification is fine.

A protracted discussion is not something for on the pitch.
 
Doesn't really matter where the game is or how many spectators, you don't want them confronting you on the pitch. Obviously that is easier said than done though at grass roots levels.

When I'm in a team of three I would tell the teams at team sheet exchange that they can come and see me ten minutes after, but if it is the manager coming in I would appreciate the club secretary being there with him. Two reasons for that approach, first is that the usual 30 minutes is too long and they just won't bother coming in, which means the question is unanswered which also means my club mark might be hammered (might be anyway if he didn't like my answer but at least I get a chance). Second reason is that the manager is more likely to be sensible if the club secretary is also there, or someone else from the club, whereas if he is on his own he is more likely to rant and rave and lead to problems.

Best one I ever had was an Isthmian Premier League game where the home manager waited outside for the 10 minutes, during that time the observer got in before him. I let him in and it is fair to say he has one of the strongest regional accents of any manager at that level, I picked up every other word, tried to give my explanation and he left with a parting comment that I didn't really get. The observer, really deadpan, just said after he had left "what did he just say there?" ... 😁
 
It really irks me when AR if my ref gets into a discussion with a player/team official at full time and let’s it drag on - especially continuing with one person while walking off. Even if it’s not argumentative on tone I think it looks and feels bad - and in end it is just another veiled attempt to undermine (post) match control.

Cut them off. Make it short!
 
What is your views/opinions on this.

If a manager approaches you lets say like Ancelotti yesterday, he seemed very calm, didn't seem aggressive and didn't seem to be swearing (obviously without hearing the conversation we cant be 100% sure)

If someone approaches you at the final whistle and wants a chat are you approachable or are you a 100% no chance.
I think with Ancelotti we have to bear in mind the scenario as well. You've got a a referee there getting an earful from a manager infront of 30k+ in a stadium and millions worldwide. He seems to give him a quick explanation and that's good enough for me. Anything after that is just a referee stood on a pitch being shouted at, if that's a player he gets a card as well so good decision by the referee for me.

and the same stands at any of my games. I say to managers beforehand that if they want to discuss anything, speak to me at HT or FT. If you shout at me from the side of the pitch, you wont get a response. I'm more than happy to have a conversation with them for as long as it takes if they aren't aggressive/shouting etc, some managers genuinely don't understand why certain decision have been given so I think taking the time to explain it properly is good for next weeks ref as well. However, if they just want an argument, it's the same as the Ancelotti situation
 
Doesn't really matter what we think about Ancelotti's manner or the referee's tolerance. From page 22 of the Law Changes 2019-20:

Sending-off Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to):
• delaying the restart of play by the opposing team e.g. holding onto the ball, kicking the ball away, obstructing the movement of a player
• deliberately leaving the technical area to:
• show dissent towards, or remonstrate with, a match official • act in a provocative or inflammatory manner • enter the opposing technical area in an aggressive or confrontational manner • deliberately throwing/kicking an object onto the field of play • entering the field of play to: • confront a match official (including at half-time and full-time)

The guy is bang-to-rights as far as I can see.
If you don't wanna get sent off - don't go onto the pitch and confront the referee. :confused:
 
If someone approaches you at the final whistle and wants a chat are you approachable or are you a 100% no chance.

Not ordinarily. Why would you be anyway?

Fact is, they may say they "just wanna chat/talk/clarify something with you ref" but we all know that 99% of the time all they want to do is argue their point, tell you that you got it wrong, or just simply moan about something. There's no "chat". :cool:
 
That then allows a subjective opinion of the "confront" wording within the law, as this is defined as having hostile or argumentative intent. If at the end of the game, a manager enters the field of play to shake your hand, as often happens in grassroots, and chooses to ask about a certain decision or period of play within the game, if this is done with respect and as a general chat, does it meet the requirement of the law?
 
That then allows a subjective opinion of the "confront" wording within the law, as this is defined as having hostile or argumentative intent. If at the end of the game, a manager enters the field of play to shake your hand, as often happens in grassroots, and chooses to ask about a certain decision or period of play within the game, if this is done with respect and as a general chat, does it meet the requirement of the law?

Of course.

Just so long as the "chat" isn't confrontational. ;)
 
Doesn't really matter what we think about Ancelotti's manner or the referee's tolerance. From page 22 of the Law Changes 2019-20:

Sending-off Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to):
• delaying the restart of play by the opposing team e.g. holding onto the ball, kicking the ball away, obstructing the movement of a player
• deliberately leaving the technical area to:
• show dissent towards, or remonstrate with, a match official • act in a provocative or inflammatory manner • enter the opposing technical area in an aggressive or confrontational manner • deliberately throwing/kicking an object onto the field of play • entering the field of play to: • confront a match official (including at half-time and full-time)

The guy is bang-to-rights as far as I can see.
If you don't wanna get sent off - don't go onto the pitch and confront the referee. :confused:

Yes agree 100% - no point introducing red cards for managers and specific criteria for giving them and then ignoring actions that meet those criteria
 
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That then allows a subjective opinion of the "confront" wording within the law, as this is defined as having hostile or argumentative intent. If at the end of the game, a manager enters the field of play to shake your hand, as often happens in grassroots, and chooses to ask about a certain decision or period of play within the game, if this is done with respect and as a general chat, does it meet the requirement of the law?

That's where it comes down to the referee and the context. Think about this scenario. You've sent a player off for calling you "A blind ****"

At the end of the game the manager of the dismissed player shakes your hand and asks you why you sent him off as he didn't hear it.

You tell him what happened and he turns around and says "fair enough, hopefully this time he'll learn his lesson" that's a clarification which I'm happy to give on the pitch.

However if instead of that response he says "but he's got a point, you missed 2 blatant fouls on him including one right before he said it" that would be the point that I would be telling him I'm not discussing it outside, but more than happy to do so in the referees room.

If he continues, then you can get the cards out.
 
I usually stand where I was stood when they approached.

Oh, that's not what you meant. Ok. Like many have already said, my position is that I will hear out any concerns or answer any questions put to me in a respectable manner once all of my other duties are complete. In the highly publicized case of Ancelloti, we can't know what was said so we should assume that he was offensive or insulting or, alternatively, was told to go away a few times already.

If I were in a similar situation, this would have been a case of "Carlo, I've still got a job go do here. I'm happy to hear you out and we can have a frank and honest discussion about this after I've done what I need to do."
 
The thing about the Ancelotti one is that you can see Kavanaugh trying to ignore him, then Ancelotti pushes past the ref to confron the AR - at which point Kavanaugh gets involved, Ancelotti responds and Kavanaugh goes for the red. Ancelotti has either said something pretty awful in that moment, or Kavanaugh has overreacted because he feels that the discussion has moved onto his assistant and he has to protect him.

More generally, my approach is usually to answer an initial question. Some managers genuinely just want to know why you did what you did and will accept an answer as long as it's considered and makes sense to them. Others will start to dispute that answer, at which point I back off and try not to engage - if you need to use cards to enforce that, then so be it.
 
The thing about the Ancelotti one is that you can see Kavanaugh trying to ignore him, then Ancelotti pushes past the ref to confron the AR - at which point Kavanaugh gets involved, Ancelotti responds and Kavanaugh goes for the red. Ancelotti has either said something pretty awful in that moment, or Kavanaugh has overreacted because he feels that the discussion has moved onto his assistant and he has to protect him.

More generally, my approach is usually to answer an initial question. Some managers genuinely just want to know why you did what you did and will accept an answer as long as it's considered and makes sense to them. Others will start to dispute that answer, at which point I back off and try not to engage - if you need to use cards to enforce that, then so be it.

He hasn't overreacted, the laws are now clear that a manager or coach entering the pitch to confront match officials should be shown a red card, as below. It can't be argued that he wasn't confronting them, Kavanagh has tried to get him to go away but he only listens when the red card comes out.

Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to):

• entering the field of play to:

• confront a match official (including at half-time and full-time)
 
He hasn't overreacted, the laws are now clear that a manager or coach entering the pitch to confront match officials should be shown a red card, as below. It can't be argued that he wasn't confronting them, Kavanagh has tried to get him to go away but he only listens when the red card comes out.

Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to):

• entering the field of play to:

• confront a match official (including at half-time and full-time)
Kavanaugh didn't say a word to him until he started going for the assistant. A red card with no OFFINABUS might be justified in law, but that doesn't change the fact that he went from 0 to 100 incredibly quickly and Kavanaugh has stuck his neck out to defend his ÁR when most of his colleagues would have attempted a different (arguably less correct) approach.
 
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He hasn't overreacted, the laws are now clear that a manager or coach entering the pitch to confront match officials should be shown a red card, as below. It can't be argued that he wasn't confronting them, Kavanagh has tried to get him to go away but he only listens when the red card comes out.

Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to):

• entering the field of play to:

• confront a match official (including at half-time and full-time)
And interestingly, on MOTD the commentator chose to use the exact words "Ancelotti has gone on to the pitch to confront Kavanagh" .... as you say nailed on RC for me.
 
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