What do you use for the coin flip

[Quarryref]

I've never taken a coin out with me.

This was an accident on my first game (i forgot a coin) so i decided to say to the away captain "red or yellow".

And in my left shorts pocket i have one of each (for 2 yellow card dismissals).

Nearly 30 years later i've never changed.

I've saved myself a few quid in the process!!

LOTG does actually mandate a coin toss (and from this season the referee has to toss the coin). That being said, I can't see that being top of anyone's moan list in a grassroots game.

I don't think I've ever done it in an 11-a-side game, but I have certainly done the 'which hand is the grass in' trick in small-sided tournaments where I have lost my coin and not had time to go and get another one.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

I've never taken a coin out with me.

This was an accident on my first game (i forgot a coin) so i decided to say to the away captain "red or yellow".

And in my left shorts pocket i have one of each (for 2 yellow card dismissals).

Nearly 30 years later i've never changed.

I've saved myself a few quid in the process!!

. . . whilst not complying with the LOTG

 

[Anubis]

I'm sure we'd all agree that bullying of junior officials by senior officials (or in any other combination) is unacceptable and should be called out.

I think where we are all struggling @Anubis is to get from our individual experience of a referee handing us as AR or 4th a coin to bullying. I can think of a few occasions where I've been asked and it's never been in that context - it's always just it's less likely to fly out of my pocket and I've been happy to oblige.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have never seen bullying of an AR or 4th by a referee in any context. Sure there are some officials I enjoy working with more than others - same as any other avenue in life. But a bit of mild pomposity and 'does he really need to take himself that seriously' is about as bad as it's got.

In fact, one of the things I most enjoy about refereeing is the opportunity to work with colleagues in all their shapes, sizes and with all their individual idiosyncrasies. If you'd have asked me when I was playing, I might have had a different view, but since taking up the whistle I generally find they / we are an agreeable lot !

Methinks time to draw a line under this one before the thread becomes too personal ....

90% good barring being happy to oblige?
What if you were not though but felt pressured to do so....its this which iis key

agree though, I have made it clear the ( true) meaning of the act, its so cleverly disguised it fools the masses, the non insulting method is simply have the ar/4th carry their own coin, fuss over

 

[RustyRef]

Is it bullying then in that case to expect the 4th official to make the tea and coffee, as that is pretty much universal in my experience ?

Or asking him / her to pump up the match balls whilst the other three are out for a warm up. Or relaying messages to home team officials if there is a problem off the pitch. e.g. crown trouble, discriminatory comments in the stands, etc? None of those are listed in the 4th official's duties, but it is absolutely expected.

I don't think I have ever read such nonsense. I know it is pre-season and we are all a bit bored with no football, but come on ...

 

[RustyRef]

I've never taken a coin out with me.

This was an accident on my first game (i forgot a coin) so i decided to say to the away captain "red or yellow".

And in my left shorts pocket i have one of each (for 2 yellow card dismissals).

Nearly 30 years later i've never changed.

I've saved myself a few quid in the process!!

Savings which you might lose if you get charged and fined for failing to proficiently apply the laws of the game, as well as suspended. Only needs you to upset one of the teams and they report you out of spite.

 

[Kent Ref]

Savings which you might lose if you get charged and fined for failing to proficiently apply the laws of the game, as well as suspended. Only needs you to upset one of the teams and they report you out of spite.

If you think like that i think you've lost your perspective on reality.

Do you think a CFA would waste time on this? If you genuinely believe yes i'm quite worried.

 

[JamesL]

If you think like that i think you've lost your perspective on reality.

Do you think a CFA would waste time on this? If you genuinely believe yes i'm quite worried.

It has happened in a high profile match... Referee was suspended. Albeit he did rock paper scissors but the principle is the same. I get where you are coming from and it would be heavy handed but the point is you are risking it, not that it will happen for certain.

 

[RustyRef]

If you think like that i think you've lost your perspective on reality.

Do you think a CFA would waste time on this? If you genuinely believe yes i'm quite worried.

Yes, referees have been charged for this in the past. In the high profile one people said his suspension was harsh, but he didn't have a leg to stand on as how could he say that he had correctly applied the laws given they require the referee to toss a coin?

 

[WalterPinkman]

Yes, referees have been charged for this in the past. In the high profile one people said his suspension was harsh, but he didn't have a leg to stand on as how could he say that he had correctly applied the laws given they require the referee to toss a coin?

I heard that they are changing the laws for next year to include the fact that the 4th official should not be handed a coin in any capacity

 

[ARF]

If you think like that i think you've lost your perspective on reality.

Do you think a CFA would waste time on this? If you genuinely believe yes i'm quite worried.

Referee suspended over using rock, paper, scissors instead of coin toss in WSL game

Referee David McNamara has been suspended for three weeks after overseeing a bizarre start to a Women’s Super League game last month

www.theguardian.com

As @RustyRef has said, not a leg to stand on.

I was charged by my CFA last season after binning a manager during a game - part of the club's response to the manager's misconduct charge was to look back through over seven years of my Twitter account, and screenshot anything they could to do a character assassination of me.

So if you think a club who had a problem with a decision you made, or a card issued, or a misconduct report submitted, wouldn't potentially use anything they could lay their hands on to get back at you for it (especially something that's so black and white in the LotG), then it's you who needs to reacquire your "perspective of reality".

 

[Anubis]

Is it bullying then in that case to expect the 4th official to make the tea and coffee, as that is pretty much universal in my experience ?

Or asking him / her to pump up the match balls whilst the other three are out for a warm up. Or relaying messages to home team officials if there is a problem off the pitch. e.g. crown trouble, discriminatory comments in the stands, etc? None of those are listed in the 4th official's duties, but it is absolutely expected.

I don't think I have ever read such nonsense. I know it is pre-season and we are all a bit bored with no football, but come on ...

none of those are being asked ( told) to look after an object which is worth thousands and is highly personal to the owner

maybe had you officiated with an owner of said item, you would reconsider your view of nonsense...

the iinfamous telling of a top referees' instruction that even when walkimg round the town on the day of the match you walk with the referee in the middle , ditto hotel, should be a clue to what goes on

 

[es1]

Referee suspended over using rock, paper, scissors instead of coin toss in WSL game

Referee David McNamara has been suspended for three weeks after overseeing a bizarre start to a Women’s Super League game last month

www.theguardian.com

As @RustyRef has said, not a leg to stand on.

I was charged by my CFA last season after binning a manager during a game - part of the club's response to the manager's misconduct charge was to look back through over seven years of my Twitter account, and screenshot anything they could to do a character assassination of me.

So if you think a club who had a problem with a decision you made, or a card issued, or a misconduct report submitted, wouldn't potentially use anything they could lay their hands on to get back at you for it (especially something that's so black and white in the LotG), then it's you who needs to reacquire your "perspective of reality".

Absolute c**ts trick.

If you were my mate and I had a chance of reffing this team I'd be wanting to absolutely screw them over...so please tell us which club!!!

 

[ARF]

I heard that they are changing the laws for next year to include the fact that the 4th official should not be handed a coin in any capacity

When the ball hits the coin after it's fallen out of the referee's pocket, would that count as having touched the referee, and therefore a dropped ball restart?

 

[RustyRef]

none of those are being asked ( told) to look after an object which is worth thousands and is highly personal to the owner

maybe had you officiated with an owner of said item, you would reconsider your view of nonsense...

the iinfamous telling of a top referees' instruction that even when walkimg round the town on the day of the match you walk with the referee in the middle , ditto hotel, should be a clue to what goes on

You've changed your tune, originally it was any coin. You replied to my post about Anthony Taylor doing the same, with me saying nothing about it being valuable or sentimental, with ...

Taylor be told no just the same

his coin, his responsibilty

am there as AR, no carthorse

then followed up with ...

am not carrying someone elses baggage.

Now you've added that it is worth thousands. If a referee is stupid enough to use a coin worth thousands you just simply say, "sorry, I'm not comfortable looking after that". If you would say the same for a 2p piece my original comment of you not being a team player stands.

 

[ARF]

Absolute c**ts trick.

If you were my mate and I had a chance of reffing this team I'd be wanting to absolutely screw them over...so please tell us which club!!!

I couldn't possibly say

I could however post a link to an article where the manager said his attacker and the opposition goalkeeper were six feet away from each other when I blew for a foul which denied his team an equaliser in the first half: https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/...orndeans-defeat-at-blackfield-langley-3556949

I could then also post a photo posted on social media by the opposition...

Anyone got a ruler?

 

[es1]

I couldn't possibly say

I could however post a link to an article where the manager said his attacker and the opposition goalkeeper were six feet away from each other when I blew for a foul which denied his team an equaliser in the first half: https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/...orndeans-defeat-at-blackfield-langley-3556949

I could then also post a photo posted on social media by the opposition...

Anyone got a ruler?

I'm putting a temp location in...


Bit of a trek mind!

 

[Anubis]

You've changed your tune, originally it was any coin. You replied to my post about Anthony Taylor doing the same, with me saying nothing about it being valuable or sentimental, with ...



then followed up with ...



Now you've added that it is worth thousands. If a referee is stupid enough to use a coin worth thousands you just simply say, "sorry, I'm not comfortable looking after that". If you would say the same for a 2p piece my original comment of you not being a team player stands.

would you say, am not comfy carrying it?

in fear of future progression?

or do it anyway.

 

[RustyRef]

would you say, am not comfy carrying it?

in fear of future progression?

or do it anyway.

Not if it was valuable or sentimental. If it was a 2p like most referees use then of course I would, to refuse to do so would be unfamthomable.

 

[Anubis]

Not if it was valuable or sentimental. If it was a 2p like most referees use then of course I would, to refuse to do so would be unfamthomable.

ok, my muddled intended post was, ( the very real) situation that unique coin was handed to 4ths for a few seasons
It was then lost during a game
It was only found via the groundsman and a machine

nobody felt comfy being charged with this coin, yet, nobody felt they could refuse

it was this my bullying notion came from,

apologies for the muddled posts.

 

[RefIADad]

It’s remarkable that anyone wouldn’t hold onto the center’s coin as the fourth. I wouldn’t even think twice about doing this. In fact, I’ve volunteered to hold the coin when I’ve been a fourth.