The Ref Stop

Level 4 Observations/Merit Tables

JamesL said:
Well no because you still need to be in that top percentile to be even get there in the 1st place .
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Well I know one who finished 9th in the observer table in his pool and didn't get automatic OR invited to the selection day.

Can you guess which demographic/s he fits into?
 
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The Man In Black said:
Well I know one who finished 9th in the observer table and didn't get automatic OR invited to the selection day.

Can you guess which demographic/s he fits into?
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9th is not high enough unless the pool has well over 100 refs
I was 6th last year and knew I had no chance
 
JamesL said:
It's very clear it you operate at the level. Here is what was communicated at the start of the season...

New Criteria – “Playoff” Methodology for Level 2B, Level 3A and Level 4 referees
Following a successful trial at Step 2, the playoff methodology for determining both mid-season and
end of season promotions will be introduced for Level 3A and Level 4 referees for season 2023/24.
50% of those promoted will achieve automatic promotion through the merit table position whilst
the remaining 50% of promoted officials will be determined via an assessment day. Invitation to the
assessment day at the relevant level will be decided by those who did not achieve automatic
promotion via the merit table owing to club performance, and those next best placed on the merit
table.
This extends the opportunity for progression to a cohort of officials who marginally miss out on
automatic promotion.
Full details of its application can be found in the update.
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There was also some literature somewhere about being considered with less than 5 observations if you have achieved the average number of observations for the group you're in I believe, so appears I would have come under that part of it.
 
This is news to me today and i hope the FA are not using this opportunity to be unfair.

I assume none of this is challengeable?
 
Big Cat said:
Yeh, well I had a female ref promoted ahead of me last year despite being lower in the Observer Merit Table. That said, her Club Marks may have been significantly better than mine but I don't know that bit of info. On that basis, I was OK with that particular selection
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So essentially, the FA have overruled the statistics to fit their agendas? I wouldn't be happy if I finished above said candidates for them then to be promoted based on being lower on observation marks.
 
Big Cat said:
Do they make public the Merit Tables at any level of the game?
If not, why not?
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I'll answer my own question

Merit Tables (including the lesser spotted Consolidated Merit Tables) are not made Public
Obviously this results in a lack of transparency

However, I'm not stupid. Publishing the Merit Tables causes problems of it's own because the final positions do not reflect some relevant considerations like availability, dependability, communication, administration, misconduct and previous year's statistics. In the absence of this supplementary information, selection could appear to involve favouritism
So complete transparency is a problem either way

My concern is that as far as Woke Organisations go, the FA is right up there. By 'Woke Organisation', I'm referring to image and the perceived marketing importance of being on the right side of social injustice. They have a genuine problem that football seriously lacks diversity and I can understand they're desperate to redress that. Inevitably, such pressures will lead to positive discrimination and we can only cynically estimate how much of a role that plays in promotion selection
Others may disagree given the need to redress the diversity crisis, but I can't abide any form of discrimination, positive or negative. I'd be amazed if the former is not a factor in redressing a history of the latter
 
The Man In Black said:
So essentially, the FA have overruled the statistics to fit their agendas? I wouldn't be happy if I finished above said candidates for them then to be promoted based on being lower on observation marks.
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Yeh, but they ultimately use the consolidated merit table for selection (% of observer + lesser % of club marks)
 
Kent Ref said:
Some of the posts on here would suggest things are not transparent.

I think those posts speak for themselves (on here).
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You wish to challenge those selected for an assessment day ? You wish to challenge the criteria set out for those attending the assessment day ?
I fail to see why the FA would elect to promote those not best suitable for promotion above 4. It would only set up the referee and the organisation.
 
Big Cat said:
Yeh, well I had a female ref promoted ahead of me last year despite being lower in the Observer Merit Table. That said, her Club Marks may have been significantly better than mine but I don't know that bit of info. On that basis, I was OK with that particular selection
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We had this few years ago with the old marking system.. someone I know finished A,A in the standings for obs and clubs

A female finished A,D
The female got promoted
She was quite open at the time where she finished which was quite surprising

It happens unfortunately,
 
Big Cat said:
Yeh, but they ultimately use the consolidated merit table for selection (% of observer + lesser % of club marks)
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There is no such thing as a consolidated merit table any more as far as I'm aware.

Observer marks are the be all and end all for positioning, however you can be excluded (from promotion or reclassification) if you're at the opposite end of the club marks table.

The 'weighted merit table' which is what has been used for this bunch of selections, is purely observer mark based, but is weighted based on when these marks were received.
 
Kent Ref said:
Not mine - the posts of others are pretty clear. Shall i number them?
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I don't understand your problem. Things are as transparent as they could possibly be.

A few years ago, we never got to see a specific position in a merit table, never saw our club marks and just got banding updates 4 times a year (?), then the FA select those who will be promoted and, as stated in one of these posts you're concerned about, a female was promoted above a male who appeared to have a better overall banding.

Now, we see a live merit table for clubs and observers at any given point. In fact we see 4 tables. Annual marks clubs, annual marks observers, seasonal marks clubs and seasonal marks observers.
This system of having an assessment day was clearly laid out, along with how people would be chosen, at the start of the season.
 
I was transferred onto a game recently. I replaced a female official who had one of those random Level 4 Coaches on the game. The Coach was promptly taken off the game and stuck on a game with a young lad in the Middle!

So be it! The kid might fit the FA's bill and might be a star of the future. I'm not really bothered. But discrimination of any form gets a red card from me and we live in a world plagued by corporate/capitalist wokism that has everything to do with marketing and image and nothing to do with righting the world's wrongs
 
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RefereeX said:
I don't understand your problem. Things are as transparent as they could possibly be.

A few years ago, we never got to see a specific position in a merit table, never saw our club marks and just got banding updates 4 times a year (?), then the FA select those who will be promoted and, as stated in one of these posts you're concerned about, a female was promoted above a male who appeared to have a better overall banding.

Now, we see a live merit table for clubs and observers at any given point. In fact we see 4 tables. Annual marks clubs, annual marks observers, seasonal marks clubs and seasonal marks observers.
This system of having an assessment day was clearly laid out, along with how people would be chosen, at the start of the season.
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I'm a big fan of equality. Just like Big Cat.

Judging by at least 7 or 8 posts on here things are a little murky.

I'm not even involved in "assessment day" but i'm entitled to make a judgement on others feelings / thoughts on this.
 
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