The Ref Stop

New goal kick trick

one said:
Tend to agree with you. But the question is (as pointed out in the above), why was "including from a free kick" added in the first place.
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Because one of the things that was actually done at the time was a defender taking a FK, lifting the ball up to his teammate's head who headed it directly back to their GK.

Lots of weird wordings and Laws are on the book because they actually happened.

Like the GK scoring an own goal on a CK. Explicitly called out because it happened somewhere.
 
The Ref Stop
AlexF said:
Because one of the things that was actually done at the time was a defender taking a FK, lifting the ball up to his teammate's head who headed it directly back to their GK.
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And how is that against the spirit of the back-pass law? The same argument that people use to allow OP could have been used back then to allow it to happen from a free kick. Yet IFAB decided to disallow it.

I am not for it (allowing it) by the way. I think it should be consistently disallowed, time wasting or not. I also think it is strange that IFAB has come out and said we will have to think what we are going to do about this while they have already been against it (or something very similar) by including "from a free kick" in the circumvention law.
 
one said:
The law requires you to caution if a player uses a deliberate trick to pass the ball to keeper using his head from a free kick. Can you tell me one/any example when a trick (with your definition) happens from a free kick as above?
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I don't think that is a trick either but I'd caution for where necessary because I have to
 
JH said:
Clearest 'trick' I have ever seen, why is this a debate:wall:
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one said:
Tend to agree with you. But the question is (as pointed out in the above), why was "including from a free kick" added in the first place. It would have made more sense to exclude all restarts as you can't waste time doing it from restarts. Nonetheless, it is included and hasn't explicitly included other restarts and we now have a problem because not everyone interprets it the same.
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I think that you can use it to time-waste from restarts. It allows the goalkeeper to hold on to the ball for an additional six seconds before releasing it - and probably more considering referees rarely apply that role to the letter. I don't really see why a restart should be treated any differently from it happening in open play.
 
onthebrink said:
I think that you can use it to time-waste from restarts. It allows the goalkeeper to hold on to the ball for an additional six seconds before releasing it - and probably more considering referees rarely apply that role to the letter. I don't really see why a restart should be treated any differently from it happening in open play.
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In a game were average play time is less than 60 minutes for a 90 minute game with as low as less than 45 minutes in some games, if I was to do something about time wasting, the 6 seconds wasted from some restart would be in the lowest of my priorities.

I have mentioned before that you can consider it time wasting but it is insignificant. It's when it happens in general play (over and over) that it becomes significant and needs addressing. However, I don't want to see it being allowed. If not for consistency, then for general principle of the game of football which is meant to be played by feet and not hands. Exception of goal keeper should not be allowed in this case (IMO).
 
one said:
In a game were average play time is less than 60 minutes for a 90 minute game with as low as less than 45 minutes in some games, if I was to do something about time wasting, the 6 seconds wasted from some restart would be in the lowest of my priorities.

I have mentioned before that you can consider it time wasting but it is insignificant. It's when it happens in general play (over and over) that it becomes significant and needs addressing. However, I don't want to see it being allowed. If not for consistency, then for general principle of the game of football which is meant to be played by feet and not hands. Exception of goal keeper should not be allowed in this case (IMO).
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It obviously doesn't waste that much more time comparatively but it clearly would have the potential to increase the amount of time wasted. How many goal-kicks does a team have in a game? I'd be surprised if they had many more opportunities in general play when they can be challenged to use such a trick to get the ball back to the goalkeeper compared to a goal-kick when they can't really be challenged. I hope in time it will be penalised with an indirect free-kick and yellow card to stop teams doing it (making them retake it is a good interim step but probably wastes just as much time in a one-off instance!)
 
Hi
Before the change the defender could wait until the ball was on the penalty area line, step in and play the ball which always resulted in a retake. No card was used unless it was done repeatedly which I never saw. That used up significantly more time.
Personally I felt the solution was to enforce the 6 seconds strictly once the ball was picked up by the GK. A few IDFKs and it would be sorted.
FIFA / IFAB now knows that the more technical cards situations there are for GKs the more likelylihood of reds / second yellow suspensions in major tournaments. In the Women's WC they had to remove the encroachment caution in KFTPM due to the potential of reds for two encroachments and suspensions for second yellows.
 
Goldfish said:
Hi
Before the change the defender could wait until the ball was on the penalty area line, step in and play the ball which always resulted in a retake. No card was used unless it was done repeatedly which I never saw. That used up significantly more time.
Personally I felt the solution was to enforce the 6 seconds strictly once the ball was picked up by the GK. A few IDFKs and it would be sorted.
FIFA / IFAB now knows that the more technical cards situations there are for GKs the more likelylihood of reds / second yellow suspensions in major tournaments. In the Women's WC they had to remove the encroachment caution in KFTPM due to the potential of reds for two encroachments and suspensions for second yellows.
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The 'problem' is not how to manage the situation once you have allowed it. It is the very likely concequences of it in the long term. In a year or two majority of goal kicks will be taken this way. A ceremony totally unnecessary which adds no value to the game other than starting the game with the ball in the keeper's hand. Then the logical follow up would be to change a goal kick to a goal clearance where a keeper must release the ball from his hands to put the ball into play. This is not necessarily a bad thing but I like goal kicks the way it is.
 
Goldfish said:
Hi
Before the change the defender could wait until the ball was on the penalty area line, step in and play the ball which always resulted in a retake. No card was used unless it was done repeatedly which I never saw. That used up significantly more time.
Personally I felt the solution was to enforce the 6 seconds strictly once the ball was picked up by the GK. A few IDFKs and it would be sorted.
FIFA / IFAB now knows that the more technical cards situations there are for GKs the more likelylihood of reds / second yellow suspensions in major tournaments. In the Women's WC they had to remove the encroachment caution in KFTPM due to the potential of reds for two encroachments and suspensions for second yellows.
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I'm sure that it was sometimes used for timewasting but generally a defender stepping into the penalty area did not happen too often (I guess partly because it was a bit more risky as a strategy) but allowing a defender to head the ball back to the goalkeeper could easily become the norm for some teams.

If IFAB make this an indirect free-kick and a yellow card then I can't imagine any team doing it because it's not like a goalkeeper slightly stepping off their line which can be more difficult to avoid. Teams simply wouldn't do it if they knew it would be penalised.
 
santa sangria said:
...how many times shall the referee order the goal kick to be retaken if the GK does this repeatedly...?
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18? (I've not done the exact maths).

Twice for the original GK then caution on 3rd time for persistent offending/USB. 2nd YC if he does it again. Then caution for each player taking the place of the GK and doing it, maybe one at a time, until 4 have got 2 cautions and they've only got 6 players left.
 
bloovee said:
Still only one player whether acting as GK or not....

I think they'd stop at the second dismissal...
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Ah. But the GK is clearly defined. and to swap the ref must be informed. The scenario has changed as well as there are now 3 players involved...

Ahh I give up. It was totally tongue in cheek.
 
JamesL said:
Ah. But the GK is clearly defined. and to swap the ref must be informed. The scenario has changed as well as there are now 3 players involved...

Ahh I give up. It was totally tongue in cheek.
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Nothing to say the GK is the one who has to take the kick though
 
JamesL said:
What if a player other than the GK flicks the ball up and another defender heads back to keeper?
The circular only mentions the goalkeeper flicking it up.
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Also, no mention on what to do if the ball is rolled along the ground (not 'lifted' up) on to the head of a defender who is lying down and then picked up by the keeper?
 
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