Just seen a clip of the red card for Ben Mee and my goodness that is not a clear and obvious error by David Coote surely? He was literally a yard or two away with the best view yet he get sent to the screen looking at an angle further away and decides it's a red. It looked more reckless than dangerous imo and if red is more the correct decision then it reflects badly on Coote he made an clear and obvious error from a yard away.
Brentford V Villa re refereeing?!
- Thread starter Paul_10
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ladbroke8745
RefChat Addict
Not seen any games this week due to refereeing my own..
Have read that he missed an obvious penalty too. Apparently he had an absolute shocking game. Many Brentford fans have said that they thought it was a red.
Have read that he missed an obvious penalty too. Apparently he had an absolute shocking game. Many Brentford fans have said that they thought it was a red.
For me it's more of an orange card which is why I don't understand when Coote has the perfect position the VAR decides to get involved and then he sees the incident from the angle he more or less had but from further away and thinks it's a red.
No doubt some will think red is the right decision but is it a clear and obvious error? And if it is then that reflects badly on Coote.
ladbroke8745
RefChat Addict
Just watched sky sports highlights.
Can see why its upgraded, but at the same time is it really clear and obvious when it was already clear and obvious to the referee to go yellow with it yards in front of him? That is literally the definition of re-refereeing. It is one of those decisions that he will go yellow and let VAR deal with it to upgrade or not. Again, one of those once he has been sent to the monitor he is going to change his mind and not have a back bone and say "no, I was yards away, unobstructed, and not changing my decision".
In my opinion, he clearly lost his match control from this point as to then go on and show something like 10 yellow cards from this. To have Martinez shove Maupay to the floor (even if it was weak) and then Literally grab him by the shirt collar to drag him up and only get a yellow is farcical, but to send off Kamara for shoving a Brentford in the chest (the same thing Martinez done to Maupay that kick started that melee).
Also, a penalty not given, or apparently looked at before Brentfords first goal. McGinn not even looking at the corner coming in, eyes purely for Mee and grabs Mee and wrestles to the floor.
Very poor officiating from those highlights, both on the pitch and in the VAR room.
I really think it is about time field referees grew a backbone and told VAR to shove their review.
Can see why its upgraded, but at the same time is it really clear and obvious when it was already clear and obvious to the referee to go yellow with it yards in front of him? That is literally the definition of re-refereeing. It is one of those decisions that he will go yellow and let VAR deal with it to upgrade or not. Again, one of those once he has been sent to the monitor he is going to change his mind and not have a back bone and say "no, I was yards away, unobstructed, and not changing my decision".
In my opinion, he clearly lost his match control from this point as to then go on and show something like 10 yellow cards from this. To have Martinez shove Maupay to the floor (even if it was weak) and then Literally grab him by the shirt collar to drag him up and only get a yellow is farcical, but to send off Kamara for shoving a Brentford in the chest (the same thing Martinez done to Maupay that kick started that melee).
Also, a penalty not given, or apparently looked at before Brentfords first goal. McGinn not even looking at the corner coming in, eyes purely for Mee and grabs Mee and wrestles to the floor.
Very poor officiating from those highlights, both on the pitch and in the VAR room.
I really think it is about time field referees grew a backbone and told VAR to shove their review.
msportstars
New Member
It’s clear ref’s are using the yellow to allow the foul to be upgraded. They’re clearly afraid of getting it wrong so allowing VAR to take the hit. They should grow a backbone both making the right decisions and saying no to VAR
Apart from it doesn't work like that. Even though VAR corrects the decision the referee, and any ARs / 4th official deemed to be complicit, will get given an incorrect KMD and get a maximum mark of 7.9.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Yup. Nonetheless, I think there are some subconscious effects on some decisions where refs may err on the side of yellow because they’d rather have a yellow upgraded than a re reduced. But I completely agree that Rs are not making conscious decisions to not make the right call. (Just as I don’t think they are making conscious decisions to follow VARs when they know the VAR is wrong—but it’s a pretty strong input on your decision making when you’re jogging over because a colleague, with access to multiple views, believes you’ve made a clear error.)
I'm surprised this is controversial, clear red card for me.
Also, what's he doing around the second sending off? Martinez kicks it all off by barging the Brentford player and the ref just seems to do nothing. You don't hear a whistle until Martinez goes back for more and then he's very late getting there. Incredibly passive refereeing and seems to fail to read the temperature and react at all.
Also, what's he doing around the second sending off? Martinez kicks it all off by barging the Brentford player and the ref just seems to do nothing. You don't hear a whistle until Martinez goes back for more and then he's very late getting there. Incredibly passive refereeing and seems to fail to read the temperature and react at all.
The controversy for me is why David Coote being yards away thought it was yellow therefore why did VAR thought it was a clear and obvious error to send him to the screen, what could he possibly of missed in real time that made him change his mind?
If Coote didn't had a clear view and he give nothing or even a yellow I would understand more VAR getting involved but I just can't get my head around the fact a PL referee has seemingly made a clear and obvious error from his position according to the VAR.
Still think it's more yellow than red especially when we seen incidents last week being yellow cards and not intervene upon.
I've said it before though, either VAR has exposed PL refs on the higher bar for SFP or PL refs weakness is spotting SFP on the field.
Perhaps Coote was too close to it. Having just seen it for the first time that is as red as red cards get, Mee was completely out of control and any kind of contact made with the opponent has to be red. I've been an advocate of VAR not getting involved unless the original decision was very obviously wrong, but for me that was the case here, that was a shocker of a challenge.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Coote agreed it was a clear red card by giving it. And I just don”t see how anyone who has reffed has trouble with the idea that despite a seemingly good view, an R did it have enough info to be comfortable giving the red but did agree it was clear when able to see multiple angles. Even with a clean view, we can easily get focussed on part of a scenario and miss other parts.
You're throwing out a lot of assumptions for not knowing what Coote told the VAR he saw. Maybe he didn't see any contact. Maybe he was too close as @RustyRef said. Maybe he missed how fast and aggressive Mee closed because he was looking behind him and too his right at this moment to get away from play.
But I'm more surprised that you think this is more yellow than red. For me it's one of the most dangerous tackles of the entire PL season. Coote missed it for whatever reason. VAR did not.
So if he disagrees with the VAR who thinks it was a C&O error, it's not an incorrect KMD?
Did a positioning seminar recently, it talks a lot about avoiding being too near play. As you can misread the intent + speed of the foul.
This seems to fit that description perfectly.
This seems to fit that description perfectly.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Self fulfilling prophesy stuff - the more red upgrades and C&O “fixes”, the more VAR is justified. So, it’s in the elite group’s interests to hand these to VAR on a plate.
Except when VAR ignores SFP or VC...
R
Runner-Ref
Guest
It's definitely a red card.
As others have said, I think the issue is that Coote is simply too close to play. After all, you'd take angle over proximity pretty much every day of the week. Tbf to Coote, he is trying to get himself out of the way and a better angle by sidestepping, but the challenge just happens so quickly.
Quick cards can be great at times to calm down an incident, but you also need to give yourself some thinking time. Something I don't think DC does here
As others have said, I think the issue is that Coote is simply too close to play. After all, you'd take angle over proximity pretty much every day of the week. Tbf to Coote, he is trying to get himself out of the way and a better angle by sidestepping, but the challenge just happens so quickly.
Quick cards can be great at times to calm down an incident, but you also need to give yourself some thinking time. Something I don't think DC does here