The Ref Stop

Junior/Youth An interesting and thoroughly rain-soaked morning

SLI39

Well-Known Member
No extra credit for the rain unfortunately, nor for the fact that I had two games this morning. However, I had the dubious privilege of refereeing on a third generation pitch for the first time and overseeing a truly extraordinary last few minutes in the second match.

The temperature was already high, but you can probably guess the pandemonium of match that went from a relatively (and that's the operative word) stable 3-3 from the penalty spot to 4-3 with a 25-yard own goal, a last minute home equaliser for 4-4, and a winner for the away side following a speculative ball through the middle from the ensuing kick off. Last attack logic on my part.. It was very poor defending admittedly.

Never mind these circumstances, I would like to address a few questions prompted by the match. Thank you in advance.

1) Towards the end of the second half, I played advantage for the home side after a robust 'coming together', deciding the culprit of which was quite difficult. The away coach unsurprisingly saw it the other way and ran across the pitch to check his player at the subsequent stoppage (home free-kick, which further aggrieved him). His player had come off worse (which didn't help), but there was the ulterior motive of demanding explanation from me while arguing with a parent who had wandered over. His captain also became involved, narrowly escaping a booking as I intervened early. Even if I did get it wrong, I told him I was not in any way required to have this conversation at that moment and that I would talk to him afterwards, if he so wished. He gave the impression that he was going to give me a piece of his mind, but he did co-operate in leaving the pitch. Given that this had followed a number of pedantic remarks and sustained questioning, should I have gone a step further and dismissed him?

2) At one point, the home keeper saved a shot with, let's say, his sensitive parts! He had possession (hands) and I was waiting for him to recover. He stayed down with the ball, and soon the coach and players were surrounding him. Now, I certainly should have stopped play at this point, and the easiest thing would have been to have an uncontested dropped ball (also the common sense option). For some reason, I allowed him to kick from his hands. Admitting this error, I'm now wondering whether the home team committed an offence under the new laws. Restarting with a penalty in that situation would have been tricky, but is it technically correct? See 3.7 (page 36). As I understand it, that covers interference other than denying goals. The coach had interfered with the ball in play with no permission to enter the field.

Finally, not that this happened, but just a query about the goal kick amendment. To clarify, if the ball is kicked directly into one's own goal 'without leaving the penalty area' (e.g. a keeper backheeling it accidentally), that is a retaken goal-kick, not a corner. I'm presuming the goal is always part of the penalty area for these purposes.

Apologies for the long post, but the match was a detailed affair! Good luck with refereeing duties tomorrow.
 
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The Ref Stop
1 sounds like you played this correctly

2 you should have stopped play as soon as there was an outside agent on the field if not before to give the keeper an opportunity to recover. Should have been a dropped ball but hey, nobody complained and if you dropped it to the keeper before the opposition were around, same result.

Finally, nope, corner.......
 
1 Sounds like you handled as you saw fit. Put a complex scenario like that to 5 different refs and you'd get 5 different outcomes.

2 Lesson to learn here regardless - if a goalkeeper is down injured (including an injury like this where no offence has occurred) always stop play immediately for treatment. Always. Attempt to shortcut this and it could have cost you dear, or you end up with an overly complicated scenario like you nearly had here. Stop game, allow treatment, drop ball. In this instance he could have just picked it up from the dropped ball and continued.

3 Corner. You can't concede a goal directly from your own restart. An easy way to work out the correct circumstance in such an event is to remove the goalposts in your mind. In this theoretical instance if there were no goal posts there, keeper has directly put the ball out for a corner kick.
 
1. You say that it was difficult to decide who was the culprit in the "robust coming together"? 2 things....if it was just a "coming together" then surely there is no "culprit" as it's not a foul challenge or other offence? Secondly, if it was something more than a "coming together" but it was difficult to ascertain a culprit, how, what and why made you decide to play an advantage for one of the teams?

2. A player in youth football (age group?) is down injured and you haven't stopped play, checked on them and waved on assistance.....preferring to wait until the coach took his players welfare into his own hands? I would worry less about whether you got the restart correct and more about your responsibilities towards player welfare.
 
Gonna disagree with the above for point 3.

The ball has not left the penalty area meaning it is not in play? Which means it must be a retake? Or does going out of play count as coming into play making it a corner?
 
Gonna disagree with the above for point 3.

The ball has not left the penalty area meaning it is not in play? Which means it must be a retake? Or does going out of play count as coming into play making it a corner?

Has the ball fully crossed over any of the lines marking out the penalty area?
 
Gonna disagree with the above for point 3.

The ball has not left the penalty area meaning it is not in play? Which means it must be a retake? Or does going out of play count as coming into play making it a corner?

Answered your own question mate!

Went out of PA when it went over the goal line.
 
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I'm with @LC on point 3.

Until the ball leaves the penalty area from a goal kick it is not in play. Therefore, when it leaves the pitch, it has not been in play, therefore, not a corner.

Restart with a retake of the goal kick.
 
I'm with @LC on point 3.

Until the ball leaves the penalty area from a goal kick it is not in play. Therefore, when it leaves the pitch, it has not been in play, therefore, not a corner.

Restart with a retake of the goal kick.

Lol, how can it leave the pitch without leaving play?

Doesn't make sense! :)
 
The ball is not in play until it leaves the penalty area. If it "leaves" the penalty area by crossing the goal line then the ball has not been in play, hence retake goal kick, not a corner.

The LOTG are quite clear (see page 103). It's a corner if the ball leaves the penalty area before crossing the goal line - I.e. Keeper hoofs it, ball leaves penalty area, but strong wind blows it back into the goal. However, if keeper back heels the ball into the goal it's a retake.
 
I am quite happy I asked this now (it just entered my head today as a hypothetical). I think this is one of those scenarios where it is conceivable to argue either interpretation, but presumably FIFA do have a definite position on it. Given the effort of rewriting the laws every season (so the original text cannot be inviolable), 2016/17 being a particularly extensive case, you might expect them to cover all bases in explicit terms. It may seem tautologous to them, but I'm sure it would help referees seeking quick clarifications.

On point 1), it was a gut feeling that the away team had offended (60/40 judgement), and the home side broke away with the ball. Without wanting to sound too philosophical, I am sure we have all been in the position where two players collide and we know there has been a foul; it's just determining in 1 or 2 seconds who committed the first/more serious offence. I wouldn't just guess, but in this case it was not appropriate to play advantage anyway, since one player was injured on impact.

With respect to 2), I understand your point, Padfoot. If it had been a head injury, I certainly wouldn't have hesitated. However, the goalkeeper had appeared to see the funny side himself along with the other players, and opponents even sugegsted time-wasting. I didn't anticipate that he would stay down; then the coach came on and I realised that I hadn't actually stopped play. Bit of a mess, I know, and if I had the chance again, I would stop play as soon as I saw the goalkeeper in discomfort. Perhaps the reason I was subconsciously treating these U15s like adults was because in all other respects they had hardly struck me as sheltered children! But say this was an open age game, regardless of my poor communication (I'm thinking Clattenburg/Gomes from some years ago), would the penalty/direct FK punishment be the correct response here?
 
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I think the new law wording changes this, as it is clear that a corner kick is only awarded if the ball left the penalty area.

16.1 Corner kick if kicked directly into own goal

Additional text

• A goal may be scored directly from a goal kick but only against the opposing team; if the ball directly enters the kicker’s goal a corner kick is awarded to the opponents if the ball left the penalty area.

Explanation
Clarifies the correct restart if a player scores an ‘own goal’ directly from a goal kick (e.g. in strong wind).
 
[QUOTE="SLI39, post: 81799, member: 1901
With respect to 2), I understand your point, Padfoot. If it had been a head injury, I certainly wouldn't have hesitated. However, the goalkeeper had appeared to see the funny side himself along with the other players, and opponents even sugegsted time-wasting. I didn't anticipate that he would stay down; then the coach came on and I realised that I hadn't actually stopped play. Bit of a mess, I know, and if I had the chance again, I would stop play as soon as I saw the goalkeeper in discomfort. Perhaps the reason I was subconsciously treating these U15s like adults was because in all other respects they had hardly struck me as sheltered children! But say this was an open age game, regardless of my poor communication (I'm thinking Clattenburg/Gomes from some years ago), would the penalty/direct FK punishment be the correct response here?[/QUOTE]

I don't think it would be the correct response, unless the manager entered the FOP of his own accord then interfered with play in another way - attempted to play the ball while still in play, interfered with a player on the opposing team etc. Think about outside agents in the LOTG - Entered the FOP and interfered with play are two separate areas.

If he's just on the pitch of his own accord in the manner you speak of he needs dealing with appropriately of course, but a penalty/fk would not be required.
 
The LOTG are pretty clear in stating that both teams should have a GK at all times. It's stretching that statement a little bit, but if the GK is clearly injured, it would have to be a pretty exceptional situation for me not to blow my whistle immediately - especially if he's injured but still has possession of the ball.

As other have since said, if you do stop play in this situation, a drop ball is the appropriate restart - and no one will object if you "drop" the ball directly into the keepers hands.
 
Did you play advantage or not?

Apologies; to clarify, yes, I did play advantage and blew up for a second foul a few seconds later. But I now think I should have defused things there and then, while checking whether the player needed treatment.
 
I am quite happy I asked this now (it just entered my head today as a hypothetical). I think this is one of those scenarios where it is conceivable to argue either interpretation, but presumably FIFA do have a definite position on it.
Yes they do and it was spelt out in the 2006 Q&A:
Q. A player takes a goal kick and the ball passes over the goal line without having passed out of the penalty area. What action does the referee take?
A. The goal kick is retaken.

There is nothing in any of the changes to the law since 2006 that would supersede or invalidate this answer. In fact, as RustyRef points out, the latest edition makes it even clearer that the ball must leave the penalty area (and come into play) first before a corner kick can become a possibility.
 
What happens if the GK is injured but the attacker has a very credible scoring opportunity. will you still stop play ?
 
No. Too unfair to the attack - do that and we're just encouraging keeper's to stay down if they go down. If the attack is still on and it's not clearly a serious injury, they'll get a few seconds from me to resolve it.
 
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