A&H

And it goes wrong

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SM

SM

The avuncular one
was having a stormer of an end of season. No pressure of assessments and I am rocking games like a hurricane. Really. Losing teams are thanking me for being so good? When does that happen? (Well end of season maybe... :))

Game going okay. Bunch of crap goes down which I won't go into because its not massively relevant to the next bit. Then a player gets 2 cautions for dissent (although second could have been a straight caution for a foul tackle) and shizzle goes south.

Player decides it's okay to shout "I'm gong to fudging knock you out you c-word" at me. Then does it again.

I'm off home, forget this nonsense.

Then he says it again as i collect my flags from CARs

:)

Don't take your eye off the ball for a second eh?
 
The Referee Store
Threatening him padders threatening him don't blame you Sm don't blame you st all
 
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If all he said were the words.....if he wasn't being restrained or chasing SM round the pitch...then it's only words.

Unless someone is making an aggressive attempt to actually carry out the threat.....it's easily managed by dismissing the player and making it clear to both teams that the first sign of them trying to make good on the threat will result in abandonment.

Also, the 'bunch of crap' that went down is obviously in some way relevant to events......
 
SM said:
It wasn't.
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So you say.

'Not massively relevant' implies some relevance.....presumably around the circumstances of the dissent cautions.....which could imply that the player was already feeling aggrieved over a decision you did or didn't give.....which in turn could lead to his further hostile feelings towards you....

Also, why the 2nd caution for dissent in preference to the caution for the challenge?
For those referees who care about appearances, 2 dissent cautions for the same player never looks good.......
 
SM said:
You sir, have no place in this forum.

None of that crap is relevant or any way correct. But well done.
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Because i disagree with your handling of a situation? Or because i questioned your ambiguous statement in your OP?

As you know, its difficult to accurately describe events via a forum, hence why the clarification was sought.........

DanRicketts said:
There is no place for threats; verbal, physical or whatever. It is a game and i would walk off any pitch where the same happened to me. I really would love to come a watch a game you are reffing @Padfoot.
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Totally agree that physical abuse has no place in the game......but the mere verbal threat of such without any suggestion that it would escalate beyond that? Worthy 100% of a dismissal, but just the mere verbal threat is not enough for an abandonment....there are options short of that available to referees (providing it is only mere verbals, i can't stress that enough)....if those options fail then maybe abandonment is appropriate.
 
The problem with describing incidents on this (or any) forum is that in almost all cases YHTBT. Whilst the laws of the game are set in stone, the application in a lot of cases is open to interpretation. A marginal careless/reckless challenge might one day be deemed careless with nothing more than a word, on another you might get the cards out. Likewise tolerance levels do vary referee to referee and indeed from game to game.

Reading the OP I'd say that SM is clearly not some young teenage newly qualified referee, so I'd be inclined to take his word for it when he says the other elements are not relevant.

Likewise, I'd also be inclined to respect his decision to abandon based on what he observed and how he felt, again based on his experience.

I also think that @Padfoot could probably start an argument in an empty room, but that's by the by!
 
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Padfoot said:
Are you advocating referees start performing citizens arrest for Section 5 Public Order offences?
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No, I am supporting referees that abandon matches when they are threatened with violence. I am at a loss as to why you think that this is not the correct response.
 
McTavish said:
No, I am supporting referees that abandon matches when they are threatened with violence. I am at a loss as to why you think that this is not the correct response.
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Because there is a world of difference to someone saying the words and someone actually attempting it.

If it's verbals only then there are options to consider before abandoning.....
 
But as I have pointed out, saying the words is a) completly unacceptable behaviour to a referee, behaviour for which it is completely reasonable to abandon a match b) a criminal offence. You suggested that this sort of behaviour is "easily managed" and that SM was wrong to dismiss in these circumstances. You say this is only verbals but the criminal law says that this is an offence which carries a minimum tarriff of 40 hours community service and , incidentally, a football banning order should be considered.
 
McTavish said:
But as I have pointed out, saying the words is a) completly unacceptable behaviour to a referee, behaviour for which it is completely reasonable to abandon a match b) a criminal offence. You suggested that this sort of behaviour is "easily managed" and that SM was wrong to dismiss in these circumstances. You say this is only verbals but the criminal law says that this is an offence which carries a minimum tarriff of 40 hours community service and , incidentally, a football banning order should be considered.
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You really need to stop trying to be a policeman or a lawyer.......there are many things that happen on a football pitch that would be considered a criminal act elsewhere......but you wouldn't automatically abandon because of them.

I haven't said the behaviour is easily managed.....I've said it is worthy of dismissal.....however verbals in isolation is a cheap abandonment, and there other things that could be done before that point.

Obviously if it is more than verbals only, then abandonment becomes more likely, if not inevitable.
 
Padfoot said:
Because there is a world of difference to someone saying the words and someone actually attempting it.

If it's verbals only then there are options to consider before abandoning.....
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You seem to have a flawed set of values which you change to suit the situation fella.

Happy to harangue me on a different thread for something I said because you think it's perceived as "racist" (but only by Labour-voting Guardian Reading middle class pontificating pratts ;) ) yet something said to SM is "only words" - in spite of however it might have made him feel at the time.....

Complete double standards and an epic fail chap. Epic. ;) :rolleyes:

If somebody threatens to physically harm you, then, based on how it affects your personal ability to continue to referee a football match and/or your own concerns for your personal safety, abandonment is (I would say) a far more likely and proper course of action to take. ;)

@SM - good call chap - hope the scrote gets a hefty punishment. :)
 
Padfoot said:
You abandoned for someone swearing at you?
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Do you read posts before you respond to them padfoot? Or does that make it more difficult to be deliberately antagonistic?
He abandoned because somebody threatened him. I really shouldn't have to highlight that particular significance of what was said. I don't believe even you missed that. Glad to see I'm not the only person tired of this sort of rubbish.

SM - did the absolute right thing. No need to hang around after a threat. Some may be happy to do so, and maybe the level of the match or who said it (player or spectator) will influence that. But you have my support on that decision. Not that you need it because you know it was right :)
 
Padfoot said:
You really need to stop trying to be a policeman or a lawyer.......there are many things that happen on a football pitch that would be considered a criminal act elsewhere......but you wouldn't automatically abandon because of them.
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All I am saying is that something which you dismiss as "verbals...not enough for an abandonment" is actually quite a serious criminal offence. Yes, there are things which happen on a football pitch which would incur severe peanlties elsewhere but are accepted within the game but threatening to assault someone is not one of those.

Padfoot said:
I haven't said the behaviour is easily managed
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Padfoot said:
it's easily managed
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Padfoot said:
Obviously if it is more than verbals only, then abandonment becomes more likely, if not inevitable.
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So it is only when "verbals" becomes physical violence that abandonment becomes "likely"? Give me strength!
 
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