The Ref Stop

Are we being far too generous to England players?

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Men in Black said:
6 shots on target from open play in 6 World Cup games.

I’ve heard that stat a few times not sure how true it is but quite remarkable if true.
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It's apparently true, but I think it's a fairly bogus stat. Since when was "shots on target from open play" a valid measure of a team's overall performance?

Football isn't only about shots from open play. The same article that I read with this stat (in TalkSport) also pointed out that, "No team had more shots on target from set-plays" than England. Last time I checked, goals from set plays count for just as much as goals from open play. And an effort on target is an effort on target, no matter whether it's from a set play or from open play.
 
The Ref Stop
Peter Grove said:
It's apparently true, but I think it's a fairly bogus stat. Since when was "shots on target from open play" a valid measure of a team's overall performance?

Football isn't only about shots from open play. The same article that I read with this stat (in TalkSport) also pointed out that, "No team had more shots on target from set-plays" than England. Last time I checked, goals from set plays count for just as much as goals from open play. And an effort on target is an effort on target, no matter whether it's from a set play or from open play.
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Just saying we hardly set the world alight.

With that stat staying constant through out the tournament it was gonna end sooner or later.
 
If somebody said before hand that England would compete for 3rd/4th, take a semi final to 5mins from pens, have the leading scorer and score the most goals on one game in the thing, throw in a near clean misconduct sheet too, then, I think that woukd be seen as a good tournament

In addition, not that it wins the cup, but, no offfield scandals that we know of, a respectable manager, no reports of crowd trouble, England not going home as diving cheats or play acters, job well done for me
 
Ciley Myrus said:
If somebody said before hand that England would compete for 3rd/4th, take a semi final to 5mins from pens, have the leading scorer and score the most goals on one game in the thing, throw in a near clean misconduct sheet too, then, I think that woukd be seen as a good tournament

In addition, not that it wins the cup, but, no offfield scandals that we know of, a respectable manager, no reports of crowd trouble, England not going home as diving cheats or play acters, job well done for me
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Offer England before the tournament Colombia Sweden & Croatia as your path to the final & people would have fell off there seat.

There is no question we failed however you dress it up, Belgium showed very quickly yesterday the level above..

Had we of faced Belgium Brazil or France on the other route the players would have been on the beach long ago.

Semi final great but in the wider context it was failure.
 
Men in Black said:
Offer England before the tournament Colombia Sweden & Croatia as your path to the final & people would have fell off there seat.

There is no question we failed however you dress it up, Belgium showed very quickly yesterday the level above..

Had we of faced Belgium Brazil or France on the other route the players would have been on the beach long ago.

Semi final great but in the wider context it was failure.
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You enter the FA cup, whatever the draw brings you, you go all the way and win it, job done.
Forget yesterdays game, dead rubber, had I been knocked out on Weds, its home time, tournament over.
Dont know how old you are, but, this might be first time you have seen England in a WC semi...first time you have celebrated winning a 1/4 final,
If Croatia win today, then, how can anybody say beating Croatia should have been a given?

I would also add to get past Columbia despite their antics, intimidation, and not react to it was admirable, and then not for one single moment look like losing to Sweden was outstanding, a WC 1/4 and England dominated it
Throw in being the better team for the first 45 v croatia, and, I think they did fine
 
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I only saw the last 20 mins of the Belgium game and on that evidence England were better although Belgium got a break away goal. I heard we were poor in the first half and we probably were. We reached the semis when nobody gave us any chance of that. And remember Croatia are in the final for a reason. Our lads for once id us proud. We can only beat what is front of us and recently we have not been able to do that. No open top bus tour though.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
You enter the FA cup, whatever the draw brings you, you go all the way and win it, job done.
Forget yesterdays game, dead rubber, had I been knocked out on Weds, its home time, tournament over.
Dont know how old you are, but, this might be first time you have seen England in a WC semi...first time you have celebrated winning a 1/4 final,
If Croatia win today, then, how can anybody say beating Croatia should have been a given?

I would also add to get past Columbia despite their antics, intimidation, and not react to it was admirable, and then not for one single moment look like losing to Sweden was outstanding, a WC 1/4 and England dominated it
Throw in being the better team for the first 45 v croatia, and, I think they did fine
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USA 94 was the first tournament I remember & we weren’t there.

Euro 96 again we chocked on pens I cried my eyes out.

Misery ever since, I lost all affinity with England years ago I feel very little emotion towards them tbh & only sat up & took notice in the semi final & once again they choked.

We have all the talent in the world but don’t have the minerals Ciley never have never will.

I didn’t believe in all the hype around this new chapter in England’s rise to glory, avoided every single major nation & was as flat as a pancake in the semi final.

Refereeing at the World Cup was a joke shambolic, the only positive was no trouble & everyone had a good time.
 
Men in Black said:
USA 94 was the first tournament I remember & we weren’t there.

Euro 96 again we chocked on pens I cried my eyes out.

Misery ever since, I lost all affinity with England years ago I feel very little emotion towards them tbh & only sat up & took notice in the semi final & once again they choked.

We have all the talent in the world but don’t have the minerals Ciley never have never will.

I didn’t believe in all the hype around this new chapter in England’s rise to glory, avoided every single major nation & was as flat as a pancake in the semi final.

Refereeing at the World Cup was a joke shambolic, the only positive was no trouble & everyone had a good time.
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So in short, you have just seen your country go further in the WC than you ever have before and you are classing it as a failure
You were 5 mins away from a pk lottery to actually being in the final
 
Ciley Myrus said:
So in short, you have just seen your country go further in the WC than you ever have before and you are classing it as a failure
You were 5 mins away from a pk lottery to actually being in the final
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We were lucky to get to ET, Croatia should have been out of site.

Stop getting stuck on this whole semi final & furthest I’ve ever seen us get.

We choked against a nation that we could only of dreamt of playing to get to a World Cup Final & based on our previous 28yrs & record against the bigger nations we probably will never get a better chance.

I’ll remember this World Cup for what should have been for England not what was & that was a p*ss easy route to the final & flopped against Croatia.

We failed when it mattered, I’d rather lose the final 3-0 than lose in the semis.
 
With respect Ciley jokes aside about Scotland & banter, if I were Scottish I’d probably be saying the same as you just like I do when i hear Arsenal or Chelsea fans moan “IM LIKE ARE U SERIOUS”

If u were English & witnessed them fail every major tournament year after year after year & then bang all of a sudden your in a fair half of draw teams your equivalent or less & you go & blow it trust me you’d be shaking your head in disbelief Aswell.
 
Men in Black said:
USA 94 was the first tournament I remember & we weren’t there.

Euro 96 again we chocked on pens I cried my eyes out.

Misery ever since, I lost all affinity with England years ago I feel very little emotion towards them tbh & only sat up & took notice in the semi final & once again they choked.

We have all the talent in the world but don’t have the minerals Ciley never have never will.

I didn’t believe in all the hype around this new chapter in England’s rise to glory, avoided every single major nation & was as flat as a pancake in the semi final.

Refereeing at the World Cup was a joke shambolic, the only positive was no trouble & everyone had a good time.
Click to expand...
Without google.... where was the final held in 1994..... I know the answer but would never of guessed it!
 
Having watched nearly all of the England matches. I differ on my perception of how the players performed from several. I do think getting to the semi-final no matter who you played is an accomplishment. 28 other teams wish they were so fortunate. More if you consider those who did not qualify (Netherlands, Italy, etc). My thoughts on players (as if anyone cared )

Pickford - good lord where has this guy been??? He was awesome
McGuire- dangerous on the attack and a physical force in the back
Walker - not sure here. He had moments but had MANY bad mistakes and give aways that could have cost them dearly
Dele - seems many didnt think he performed but I saw high work rate and he was strong when the team lacked pace. He was more of a force early in the tourney but I thought did well
Lingard - I love this guy at Man U. He is a great talent. Fairly invisible except for a few moments
Trippier - see Pickford. Trippier was solid all tourney and VERY dangerous in the attack. He was great
Kane - he drew the focus of everyones defense forcing them to rugby tackle him. Faded in later stages of tourney. Wonder if he was fatigued or nursing an injury from all of the hits he took.
Raheem Sterling - I differ with many here. He frustrated me all tourney. Great work rate but would consistently keep the ball too long, take long touches, try to dribble through the entire other team while ignoring obvious passes, forcing bad shots, etc. His work rate was great but decision making and team play..... not so much
Henderson - nearly completely invisible
Diet and Rashford - effective when used. Lifted them team when they were subbed in

Shame they didnt get through. 4th is certainly something to be proud of. I'd have been happy if my country hadn't choked during qualifying
 
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Sheffields Finest said:
Without google.... where was the final held in 1994..... I know the answer but would never of guessed it!
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I know there was a shed load of people there.

Gotta be nfl stadium

New York giants or something like that.

And that’s without google.

I did look the game up the other day as I heard a stat that really bugged me & I still haven’t got to the bottom of it.

Three players who played in the USA 94 final played in the premier league?
 
Hoosier Ref said:
Having watched nearly all of the England matches. I differ on my perception of how the players performed from several. I do think getting to the semi-final no matter who you played is an accomplishment. 28 other teams wish they were so fortunate. More if you consider those who did not qualify (Netherlands, Italy, etc). My thoughts on players (as if anyone cared )

Pickford - good lord where has this guy been??? He was awesome
McGuire- dangerous on the attack and a physical force in the back
Walker - not sure here. He had moments but had MANY bad mistakes and give aways that could have cost them dearly
Dele - seems many didnt think he performed but I saw high work rate and he was strong when the team lacked pace. He was more of a force early in the tourney but I thought did well
Lingard - I love this guy at Man U. He is a great talent. Fairly invisible except for a few moments
Trippier - see Pickford. Trippier was solid all tourney and VERY dangerous in the attack. He was great
Kane - he drew the focus of everyones defense forcing them to rugby tackle him. Faded in later stages of tourney. Wonder if he was fatigued or nursing an injury from all of the hits he took.
Raheem Sterling - I differ with many here. He frustrated me all tourney. Great work rate but would consistently keep the ball too long, take long touches, try to dribble through the entire other team while ignoring obvious passes, forcing bad shots, etc. His work rate was great but decision making and team play..... not so much
Henderson - nearly completely invisible
Diet and Rashford - effective when used. Lifted them team when they were subbed in

Shame they didnt get through. 3rd is certainly something to be proud of. I'd have been happy if my country hadn't choked during qualifying
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4th not 3rd

Like I said I’m 34yrs old & ive had one tournament to get excited about euro96

I gave up on England long ago, club over country all day for me.
 
Men in Black said:
4th not 3rd

Like I said I’m 34yrs old & ive had one tournament to get excited about euro96

I gave up on England long ago, club over country all day for me.
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Nothing finer than forgoing England and been taken Up the R’s instead..... (you may have to think about that one) :confused:
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Nothing finer than forgoing England and been taken Up the R’s instead..... (you may have to think about that one) :confused:
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Up the rrr’s all day over England.

So the final stadium yankees or giants yeah?

If u can come up with the 3 players that played in the 94 final that played in the premier league I’ll be impressed.

I think juninho might be one of them
 
Men in Black said:
With respect Ciley jokes aside about Scotland & banter, if I were Scottish I’d probably be saying the same as you just like I do when i hear Arsenal or Chelsea fans moan “IM LIKE ARE U SERIOUS”

If u were English & witnessed them fail every major tournament year after year after year & then bang all of a sudden your in a fair half of draw teams your equivalent or less & you go & blow it trust me you’d be shaking your head in disbelief Aswell.
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You sound like you think its a human right that England are to win the WC
Nobody had a divine right to win it.
Can I ask. Had England beat Croatia on pens and got beat in the final, is that failure?
Cos in reality, you were five mins away from that very real prospect
It sounds like you feel the only outcome that would not be failure would have been to win it, and thats just ridiculous.
If the super powers of Germany, Brazil, Italy, Spain cant just waltz up and lift it, then neither can England


Here is a question, obv without google. When Greece won the Euros, can you recall who they beat in the group? I for one cant, and, even if I could, its immaterial, the fact is, they won it, Easy draw, hard draw, whatever route to the final, the cup sat on their mantlepiece
 
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