A&H

At what age group does coaching become cards?

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QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Level 4 Referee
Just a quick one. Only been refereeing a few months and I've been put into all sorts of age groups but where's the line between coaching and cards? Obviously at the younger age groups, you'd talk them through the game, any challenges you would just speak to them rather than handing out a red card to a 9 year old!
 
The Referee Store
Rule # 1: Be careful - self preservation is the key here!

Try not to let age influence your decision to a larger extent. For example, if a 9 year old punches another, he or she has to go, irrespective of age.

Judge each incident on it's own merits and severity. Use the stepped approach as well; you can be compassionate towards a player or players, but if it the same member of the opposition being fouled every time, his side are going to want some action and protection too. You can guarantee that someone will end up on your back over it.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

This chap is by his own admission a new referee, so treat this as a genuine question please. At some point we have probably all asked it. Do not slam him for the question/suggestion or flame him. That is unfair and will not be tolerated.
 
For me, at under 11, they're old enough to know better. Obviously I'm not going to caution an 11 year old for entering the field of play without permission if his or her manager has told them to go on, but they're old enough to know better about some things. It's the only way they'll learn unfortunately.

It's not a black and white thing, but adjust your 'tolerance' accordingly.
 
It's a context thing for me. There isn't a particular age when it moves from coaching to cards, but more a view of the type of incident. As @SurreySuperRef says, a yellow card for entering the field of play without permission for a ten year old would be inappropriate, but if they punched someone then I don't care how old they are frankly. Obviously as they get more into early teens they'll understand what they are doing in terms of stopping promising attacks and things.

The one other piece of advice I would offer is don't let kids escape cards by being substituted. If one kid throws a punch, or makes a bad tackle, the manager will often say 'It's ok ref, I'll take him off and deal with it', but that doesn't actually punish the action.

Good luck with your refereeing!
 
For me, its the move from mini-soccer to youth football, so at U11 players become "bookable". Although, as per other responses, you still need to take a view at the lower age ranges.
 
Players, coaches & parents will react like you have violated their favourite aunty if you dare to show a card to a player below u18's.......

Ignore them, carry out the procedure correctly and bask in a self satisfied glow of knowing that you are the only person in a 100 yd radius (maybe less if with neutrals but not always...) that has a firm knowledge of the LOTG, having applied them fairly & without favour in the diligent execution of your duty.
The whiny moaning ingrates (players, parents and coaches) are simply not accustomed to a referee who knows their trade well and isn't afraid to show it. Don't worry, they'll remember you for future games, and eventually, the moaning subsides into a grumpy grudging acceptance that they can't intimidate you in doing what they think is the right thing.

If you want to blame anyone for this (and you really should try to avoid a blame culture) blame your colleagues who are more interested in being "popular" (and thus getting all the cup final appointments) than in doing the job properly (and thus getting bugger all cup final appointments) who pander to the nonsensical beliefs of players, parents and coaches.

:redcard:
 
If you want to blame anyone for this (and you really should try to avoid a blame culture) blame your colleagues who are more interested in being "popular" (and thus getting all the cup final appointments) than in doing the job properly (and thus getting bugger all cup final appointments) who pander to the nonsensical beliefs of players, parents and coaches.

Yep, when I was a young referee (14 years old), I made some terrible decisions and was probably the worst referee ever. Of course, now I know that you should turn up half an hour before games at least, always put your cards through, brief your CAR's properly, make sure everyone is wearing shinpads etc.

However, I didn't make the decisions I did back then because I wanted to be 'last week's ref.' I did these things because I was advised by older referees who had been officiating before I was born. I thought this was "the right way" to do things, and modelled myself after them.

As much as people give younger referees a hard time, just remember most of them learnt their habits (good or bad) from a senior referee/mentor.
 
Players, coaches & parents will react like you have violated their favourite aunty if you dare to show a card to a player below u18's.......

Ignore them, carry out the procedure correctly and bask in a self satisfied glow of knowing that you are the only person in a 100 yd radius (maybe less if with neutrals but not always...) that has a firm knowledge of the LOTG, having applied them fairly & without favour in the diligent execution of your duty.
The whiny moaning ingrates (players, parents and coaches) are simply not accustomed to a referee who knows their trade well and isn't afraid to show it. Don't worry, they'll remember you for future games, and eventually, the moaning subsides into a grumpy grudging acceptance that they can't intimidate you in doing what they think is the right thing.

If you want to blame anyone for this (and you really should try to avoid a blame culture) blame your colleagues who are more interested in being "popular" (and thus getting all the cup final appointments) than in doing the job properly (and thus getting bugger all cup final appointments) who pander to the nonsensical beliefs of players, parents and coaches.

:redcard:

There used to be a young ref who appeared on all the FA bumph locally, flogging kits and equipment, action shots from 'big' games. I bumped into him once and asked him how many games he did a week, He said 8-10.... WTAF.... I laughed and called him 'Mr Availability'.....Thats not a hobby, its a full time job!!! Not sure about his refereeing skills but they loved him at FA Towers!!!
 
Hi QR and welcome,

This is a subject that has been discussed 1000's of times up and down the country for many a year (and on this forum) and no one will ever completely agree...

Like Padfoot said, I have been at a meeting where a referee suggested no player under 18 should ever be carded, which drew gasps of disbelief around the room, where as many others would share his view. Personally I am now a firm believer that once players reach 11v11 (under 13s in this neck of the woods) it's the full laws of the game and the gloves are off. Again some managers will accept this without complaint, where as others think you're being too heavy handed. Whilst I might be more lenient to somewhat trivial offences, I take a zero tolerance stance to dissent, VC, SFP etc. I have red carded an u12s player for "excessive force", Yellow player had the ball at his feet, blue opponent run in to tackle, yellow stepped significantly away from the ball and aggressively shoulder barged his approaching opponent sending him literally flying!

It's a given that parents will want your head on a stick if you dare card one of their players &/or fail to card opposition players for exactly the same offence! Ignore it, if your gut instinct says if a player's actions are serious enough to warrant a card, then go with it. I made the mistake of thinking I could "manage" an u13s game without having to resort to cards and some of the players took advantage of it. In hindsight, had I carded the appropriate players, I probably would have saved me a lot of grief during and after the game. Whilst I have never carded ref'n regular mini-soccer (not summer tournaments), I have asked managers for players at this age range to be removed/subbed from the game for SFP challenges or persistent infringement.

I received a messaged last night from a club chairman I have ref'd for many times over the years saying he wished I had been ref'n his u14s on Sunday (Carded several of his players this season and sent off one during a pre-season "friendly"). According to him the appointed referee, one of the "older centre circle hugging gentleman" who presumably also shares the view of no cards below 18, turned a blind eye to pretty much everything from both sets of players. He said even had I been very lenient, there would have been at least 3 yellows and 1 red card! (probably didn't include his players in the card count).

Long before this season's re-write of the full laws of the game, the laws of mini-soccer stated the "spirit of the game" was just as important than the actual laws of the game. So at small/mini-soccer level, it is more about coaching/teaching players rather than ruling with an iron fist. At 9v9 (u11/12), players are making the transition towards the full laws of the game and certain more serious offences should be dealt with appropriately.
 
Hi QR and welcome,



Like Padfoot said, I have been at a meeting where a referee suggested no player under 18 should ever be carded,.
that's genuinely up there with the stupidest things I've ever heard in regards to refereeing.

One thing I've noticed is that there are plenty of referees who take the 'oh, they're just kids' approach, and plenty of players who know this and are trained in abusing this. I remember an U/12 match that I did lose control of - because it was the first difficult match I've had at this level and I was too soft. What struck me was that there was a lot of dissent - and it wasn't just whinging, they seemed to know how to try to get under my skin (as in, were taught what to say), and you could see players testing the opponents with verbals to get under their skin. And talking to them wasn't respected, because they don't expect anything further. So there are certainly very young players who are taught to abuse the fact that referees say 'oh, they're just kids'.
As for older kids - hey, I was a bit of a thug at U/14-16!! These kids definitely need cards. Again, show you're not carding them on the field and they'll start trying to injure each other.
But cards aren't JUST about match control. It's about holding players accountable for their actions.
And there are also mandatory cards.
 
As a few other posters have said, U11s is probably the right age group, although I've only had one yellow card at that age group for dissent (usually don't see any bad challenges/clinical fouls to be honest). In my experience, the dissent doesn't really start to kick in until U13s but I'm sure there are a few more exceptions to that rule such as my one instance described above.

U15s and upwards certainly need to be carded for offences else quite a few of them will attempt to walk all over you. I personally tell the teams before the game what my expectations are and what they can expect if they are not followed.

I certainly wouldn't give out cards in mini soccer, barring one exception..........If it's violent conduct such as a kid hitting an opponent, I guess you have no choice then. If they make a bad challenge etc then I'd guess it's more productive to tell the coach to take them off and explain to them what they did wrong. Can't say I've ever seen it happen before though!
 
Just a quick one. Only been refereeing a few months and I've been put into all sorts of age groups but where's the line between coaching and cards? Obviously at the younger age groups, you'd talk them through the game, any challenges you would just speak to them rather than handing out a red card to a 9 year old!
I have found that for cautions I draw the line at U12, but for Dismissals it is not age related (excessive force maybe yellow if they didn't mean it). Just use your common sence
 
A 16 year old can play in the bloody Premier League, so even the most liberal ref should be refeeing a u17/18 match as if he was refereeing an open age match.
 
I have found that for cautions I draw the line at U12, but for Dismissals it is not age related (excessive force maybe yellow if they didn't mean it). Just use your common sence
How can you possibly use 'excessive force' and not 'didn't mean it'??? Is that possible??? :confused: Surely its a players choice how excessive he goes into a tackle so he has to mean it!!!
 
I have found that for cautions I draw the line at U12, but for Dismissals it is not age related (excessive force maybe yellow if they didn't mean it). Just use your common sence

Excessive force always equals a red.......intent is not a factor.
 
common sence, if a 11yr old puts excessive force into a challenge and does not harm an opponent the YC is OK. I can see your point though.

No it isn't OK....not even close to OK.

If a player, of any age, commits a challenge with excessive force, then its a red card.

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

It's not a "point".....it's basic laws of the game.
 
(excessive force maybe yellow if they didn't mean it). Just use your common sence

It's common sense. And it's quite a lot less common than its name would imply, apparently.
 
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