Barnsley vs Chelsea

[Jtpetherick1]

It took less than thirteen minutes for Match of the Day live to get their lines out to test Sian Massey-Ellis' offside decision.

Anyone still want to pretend that people would 'accept' the errors if we got rid of VAR?

 

[es1]

I'm not sure of the point you're making?

Had there been VAR on the gane they'd have made a decision much quicker...

I hate VAR but don't expect it to go anywhere, I'd just like it to change!

Imo it makes an absolute mockery of the competition to have VAR is some games in the same round and not others, but a different topic (I presume!)

 

[Big Cat]

It took less than thirteen minutes for Match of the Day live to get their lines out to test Sian Massey-Ellis' offside decision.

Anyone still want to pretend that people would 'accept' the errors if we got rid of VAR?

Can't live with it. Can't live without it. One of the reasons the elite game is kaput

 

[RustyRef]

This has been my point since VAR came in and people complained about the forensic offside decisions. Before VAR the broadcasters were drawing lines and then criticising officials for getting it wrong by millimetres, the same broadcasters them jumped on the "VAR is wrong" bandwagon.

Yet come to a game where there is no VAR and they are drawing their own lines.

 

[Jtpetherick1]

I'm not sure of the point you're making?

Had there been VAR on the gane they'd have made a decision much quicker...

I hate VAR but don't expect it to go anywhere, I'd just like it to change!

Imo it makes an absolute mockery of the competition to have VAR is some games in the same round and not others, but a different topic (I presume!)

My point is that the game has no VAR and we were scrutinising a tight offside call. With VAR we ‘hate the millimetre decisions’ and it’s ‘ruining football.’ Either the VAR draws them and it’s wrong or the BBC do and we’re on board with it?

 

[Jtpetherick1]

Although the lack of consistency with who gets VAR is an issue too. It’s one thing when competitions say ‘from the semi-final onwards’ etc - but some fifth round games have it and some don’t?

 

[es1]

Although the lack of consistency with who gets VAR is an issue too. It’s one thing when competitions say ‘from the semi-final onwards’ etc - but some fifth round games have it and some don’t?

and one of the quarter finals wont have it while the other three will...

 

[santa sangria]

VAR is rubbish though. If I take a step back and think about waiting in a football crowd while Atari lines are drawn on a computer screen to check offside. Come one. It's a joke. Even without the flawed process, re-refereeing, selective use.

 

[es1]

VAR is rubbish though. If I take a step back and think about waiting in a football crowd while Atari lines are drawn on a computer screen to check offside. Come one. It's a joke. Even without the flawed process, re-refereeing, selective use.

you're right, of course, but lets say Liverpool were in the FA cup and playing at Bournemouth in the next round without VAR, would you be so understanding if they went out to a goal that would have been disallowed by VAR? i know i'd be fuming if the same happened to City

 

[Big Cat]

I've mentioned 'return on investment' before
The fact that they insist on using VAR in only part of the competition, implies that they want to use it whenever possible even when it's arguably unfair to do so. This suggests they're really keen on justifying the amount of money they've spent on implementation. It also suggests that no matter how bad VAR seems, they won't swallow the cost of setting it up, only to chuck it in the skip
Don't get me wrong, I know VAR is here to stay. But they've obviously invested quite a bit in the technology and training and so on. They're stuck with it, just like we are. Technology that everyone insists is essential, but a game that doesn't accommodate it and IFAB/referees who have little clue on how to use it. That's why I don't see a way out of the mess

 

[GraemeS]

Exactly and obviously correct. The BBC drawing their own lines to "prove" a decision was marginally wrong is a disgrace given the context of all their moaning about VAR - but it's also an entirely predictable and obvious disgrace.

If they really thought "armpit offsides" were ruining football, they have a moral duty not to do the same on matches where there is no VAR - but they clearly don't, they're just happy to throw referees under the bus for headlines.

 

[santa sangria]

you're right, of course, but lets say Liverpool were in the FA cup and playing at Bournemouth in the next round without VAR, would you be so understanding if they went out to a goal that would have been disallowed by VAR? i know i'd be fuming if the same happened to City

Ha!
As I think I've said, I am ready to give it up completely. I accept that "my team" might be a "victim" of a Thierry Henry handball. And it's not because "that's football". Absolutely not. We, the football family, and as officials, should always be advancing how we officiate the game. But VAR in anything like its current form is not the answer.

GLT yes. 100% benefit for virtually zero risk and zero interruption. GLT is fantastic. It is the polar opposite of VAR.
VAR no. Marginal benefit, massive inequality, massive disruption. VAR is poor.


This is going back a bit... what I think football needs is retrospective punishment for cheating, missed cards, missed VC, verbal abuse.
One big "plus" about VAR is the column inches, the news coverage. I think re-refereeing the game 24 hours later and punishing (from a palette of offences) cheating and things missed by officials, could be fantastic for the game, humanise referees and get great coverage. It wouldn't change the result on the field but it could clean up the game and could promote positive change down the pyramid. That's my vision. Ditch VAR and introduce match reviews.

 

[Martiju]

Ha!
As I think I've said, I am ready to give it up completely. I accept that "my team" might be a "victim" of a Thierry Henry handball. And it's not because "that's football". Absolutely not. We, the football family, and as officials, should always be advancing how we officiate the game. But VAR in anything like its current form is not the answer.

The only thing that's different now is that we fume because of an armpit VAR call (I just laugh now actually, whether they go for or against my team, because it's ridiculous) or, earlier in the year, an obviously deflecting 'handball' decision.

I broadly agree with santa except it was always the case that the really blatant incidents, such as the Henry handball, stand out all these years on precisely because they were so rare. Marginal offside calls and debatable issues (which do add to the column inches, but are one of the key features that makes the game so exciting) are one thing, missing uncontroversial KMIs was always less common.

 

[RefIADad]

only to chuck it in the skip

I don't have a whole lot to add to what you were saying except to say this might have jumped to my second-favorite British turn of phrase behind "putting them to the sword." As an American, I use "putting them to the sword" at times just to see how many odd looks I get from people.

 

[socal lurker]

While I agree it is weird to use VAR in some games and not others at the same stage, I don't agree that it is "unfair." There are always differences in officiating between games. Some games get the elite referee who will later do the final with his crack ARs, and other games get the ref team that barely got selected. (And I'm in the "abolish VAR" camp.)

 

[es1]

Ha!
As I think I've said, I am ready to give it up completely. I accept that "my team" might be a "victim" of a Thierry Henry handball. And it's not because "that's football". Absolutely not. We, the football family, and as officials, should always be advancing how we officiate the game. But VAR in anything like its current form is not the answer.

GLT yes. 100% benefit for virtually zero risk and zero interruption. GLT is fantastic. It is the polar opposite of VAR.
VAR no. Marginal benefit, massive inequality, massive disruption. VAR is poor.


This is going back a bit... what I think football needs is retrospective punishment for cheating, missed cards, missed VC, verbal abuse.
One big "plus" about VAR is the column inches, the news coverage. I think re-refereeing the game 24 hours later and punishing (from a palette of offences) cheating and things missed by officials, could be fantastic for the game, humanise referees and get great coverage. It wouldn't change the result on the field but it could clean up the game and could promote positive change down the pyramid. That's my vision. Ditch VAR and introduce match reviews.

i think some form of VAR has to be implemented. obviously GLT stays, that's perfect, as you say.

i just think football needs to go down one of 2 routes: rugby where all reviews are initiated by the onfield referee (aside from maybe SFP and VC) or the cricket or field hockey route where certain decisions in certain areas of the pitch are reviewable by either team.

doing away with ARs delaying flags for incredibly obvious offsides would also be appreciated!

 

[GraemeS]

doing away with ARs delaying flags for incredibly obvious offsides would also be appreciated!

But again, that's actually a really solid example of where it's a training/use issue rather than a laws issue. What you've asked for is exactly what's supposed to happen - but either due to poor training/directives, or a fear of being ripped apart in the media, AR's are being over-caution with their delayed flags. I think particularly amoung referees, that's an important distinction to make.

 

[es1]

But again, that's actually a really solid example of where it's a training/use issue rather than a laws issue. What you've asked for is exactly what's supposed to happen - but either due to poor training/directives, or a fear of being ripped apart in the media, AR's are being over-caution with their delayed flags. I think particularly amoung referees, that's an important distinction to make.

it's definitely a fine tuning of how it's applied rather than anything in law, but you see examples where the player is 2/3/4+ yards off they play on for 5/10/15 seconds until the obvious flag is raised once the move breaks down. all that does is cause frustration with officials that could be easily avoided.

obviously you get the rare instance where the early flag is wrong (SME for city's 2nd v west brom a few weeks ago) but i think the occaisional wrong call is better than what we have now.

 

[PinnerPaul]

My point is that the game has no VAR and we were scrutinising a tight offside call. With VAR we ‘hate the millimetre decisions’ and it’s ‘ruining football.’ Either the VAR draws them and it’s wrong or the BBC do and we’re on board with it?

Obvious and rather important difference is that decisions are based on the VAR lines, unlike the BBCs which they prefaced as not being 'official' and the camera angle wasn't even level with the offside line!

Its been said a 1,000 times but you can't judge millimetre offside if you can't stop the frame on the the exacat moment the player making the pass first made contact with the ball (as per LOTG) - which as is evident, they can't.

VAR just makes a judgement as best he/she can, much like the official on the ground does and I know we're split on here, but I'm firmly in the leave it to the official on the ground camp.

 

[Jtpetherick1]

Obvious and rather important difference is that decisions are based on the VAR lines, unlike the BBCs which they prefaced as not being 'official' and the camera angle wasn't even level with the offside line!

Its been said a 1,000 times but you can't judge millimetre offside if you can't stop the frame on the the exacat moment the player making the pass first made contact with the ball (as per LOTG) - which as is evident, they can't.

VAR just makes a judgement as best he/she can, much like the official on the ground does and I know we're split on here, but I'm firmly in the leave it to the official on the ground camp.

But that's never been the complaint. 'It's a joke.' 'ruining the game.' So the BBC decide to do it anyway.