A&H

Bristol City vs Huddersfield

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No pen imho. He has no time to turn away (which he is clearly trying to do) and his arm is in a natural position - and it clearly isn't deliberate.
 
Depressing interpretation of HB
Not as bad as that just given against Bournemouth however, so don't for a moment think VAR is the answer
 
He (the defender) is too close to the ball and his arm is not in a unnatural position. So no.
 
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For me, at all times during that clip, his arm is in a position that is, "justifiable by the player’s body movement for that specific situation."
 
I am saying no penalty but Refs does the height of the players hand above his shoulder alter the decision?

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Joshref said:
Are you a Bristol fan? Only asking cos you're from Bristol and despite saying its not a pen your last 2 posts seem to be suggesting it could be
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Yes, I actually watch Bristol Manor Farm more often than BCFC but I use the forum as a means to understand and improve my reffing. I might come across this one, and I'm not giving it, but I want to be 100%.

Handball wording has altered several times in years. ifab had guidance about offences around the ball striking an arm above the shoulder unless its the player deliberately playing the ball. Now?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765859575410901154

I would give this as a penalty, but I have seen this regarding players hitting their own hand/arm.

This is not handball (unless the ball goes directly into the opponents’ goal or the player scores immediately afterwards, in which case a direct free kick is awarded to the other team).

Handball | IFAB (footballrules.com)

I have learned something which I may use. Which brings me back to this what I think is a non-offence. I am checking my understanding knowledge regarding arm position. I don’t think its unnatural, I don’t think it is an offence but my mind is not closed to guidance, guidance I may have missed, or I am not aware of.
 
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Pembroke said:
Handball wording has altered several times in years. ifab had guidance about offences around the ball striking an arm above the shoulder unless its the player deliberately playing the ball. Now?
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Just to answer this particular point because you've raised it a couple of times now - it is indeed true that the laws no longer talk about penalizing the player for a hand position where the hand is above shoulder level.

Although I think it sounds as if you already know this, it is perhaps worth restating that under the current laws the only thing to consider in regards to arm position is whether the hand/arm is making the body unnaturally bigger, where unnaturally bigger is defined as being in a position that is "not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the players movement for that specific situation."

So depending on the specific situation, a scenario where the ball makes contact with the player's hand when it's above shoulder level can be considered not to be an offence, if the referee so judges.
 
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Peter Grove said:
Just to answer this particular point because you've raised it a couple of times now - it is indeed true that the laws no longer talk about penalizing the player for a hand position where the hand is above shoulder level.

Although I think it sounds as if you already know this, it is perhaps worth restating that under the current laws the only thing to consider in regards to arm position is whether the hand/arm is making the body unnaturally bigger, where unnaturally bigger is defined as being in a position that is "not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the players movement for that specific situation."

So depending on the specific situation, a scenario where the ball makes contact with the player's hand when it's above shoulder level can be considered not to be an offence, if the referee so judges.
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I was interested in positions v shoulders, and when I looked at previous guidance started to have doubts that my understanding was 100%. Thanks.
 
Just to add… if you take a long look at the Uefa handball videos - they take an incredibly harsh line, basically unenforceable, where anything away from the body is punished, and there are no positions justifiable!
 
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