A&H

Catch 22 97th minute

R

Ryan Woods

Member
Had s game last night, 1st half went well, no real issues! Result!
2nd half just kept getting interrupted with injuries resulting in 8 minutes of additional time!
The issue.............
Away team score in the 94th minute to lead 4-3, obviously the home team throw the kitchen ain't at getting a goal back resulting in a throw-in 10 yards from the defending teams corner. Home team take the throw as he takes it the Club AR raises his flag for what appears to be offside? I decide "let's see this out" (I can speak to him if need be) yes you guessed.........theow-in landed on attacking players head and in the goal! Home team celebrate, away team asking/screaming about the assistants flag, so I calmly walk over and ask what he raised his flag for? His foot was on the pitch was his answer, I asked him to physically show me where his foot was, he clearly showed me it was fully on the FOP,
Foul throw given!
Now obviously the home team are furious calling assistant a cheat etc, and worst case is seconds later the finishes leaving the home team absolutely furious with the decision! At the time I could rightly have dismissed 2/3 players for language but from the feeling I got, it was best to accept it and report them today!
So my question is should I have backed the club assistant, I feel like I should as I would have in any other situation but I'm also conscious of the fact he gave 1 foul throw all game.......if I'd over ruled him then all the toxic behaviour comes from the home team! Catch 22
 
The Referee Store
Hmm, here is the difficulty with CAR's....did the flag go up before another player touched it?
If so, why did you think 'offside'?
And you can't report a player when you haven't dismissed them, unless you have a very good reason for not dismissing them (such as threat to your safety, or they were too far away to show the card to)
 
Flag went up as soon as he threw it, I presumed he either didn't know signal for foul throw or went for offside hence I continued play (hoping nothing came of it)

Regarding not showing cards post match, the home team were surrounding me and yes it just didn't feel the right environment to intensify things
 
You're using CAR's for judging foul throws? We take it that the other 6 requirments of the throw were all spot on, and that the CAR is aware of all 7 requirements.

Offside and in / out of play only - nothing else.

This would have me asking the question - what was your position at the throw? You should be able to see, and judge the throw yourself.

The fact that at a throw is, when a flag was raised, your thought "Off Side" is off putting as you cant be off side from a throw in .....
 
HRW said:
You're using CAR's for judging foul throws? We take it that the other 6 requirments of the throw were all spot on, and that the CAR is aware of all 7 requirements.

Offside and in / out of play only - nothing else.

This would have me asking the question - what was your position at the throw? You should be able to see, and judge the throw yourself.

The fact that at a throw is, when a flag was raised, your thought "Off Side" is off putting as you cant be off side from a throw in .....
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@HRW - I think that is a little harsh - reading the OP - the throw has come a long way into the penalty area - probably isn't the first such throw - so I'd be near the drop zone - totally unable to spot a foot a few inches onto the pitch

Each to their own - and it's another thread - but I'm generally happy for CARs to help me in anyway I want / ask them to

... I had a CAR give me an over-the-line goal on Sunday that I wouldn't have been able to spot
 
my position was fine, the lines were not the best, but knowing a long throw was coming up my position was further away than normal so i could look for any issues in the penalty area.
Obviously you can't be offside from a throw-in hence the continuance of play.
The lesson I've learnt from this is my brief to the club assistants will be worded as "I do not want foul throws at all costs"
 
Ah yeah, forgot you guys like to act like a plane is coming in to land just because you've seen something ;-)

Your thought processes have let you down here. A throw has been taken, the flag goes up before it touches a player - offside is not possible, so foul throw is the most logical possibility here, so you should have gone with that instead of letting the slightly incorrect signal give you too much of an indication on what it is (don't forget these are CAR's, they don't know all the details of signalling - you're often left trying to figure out what they're trying to tell you!)
Heck, if you were near the AR you could even have asked him while play was continuing!

You would cop a bit of dissent I'm sure, but there wouldn't have been a goal involved.

As for the reporting - if you felt unsafe at the time then certainly report the players and note in the report that you didn't show a card for that reason. You were able to identify the players?
 
Ryan Woods said:
my position was fine, the lines were not the best, but knowing a long throw was coming up my position was further away than normal so i could look for any issues in the penalty area.
Obviously you can't be offside from a throw-in hence the continuance of play.
The lesson I've learnt from this is my brief to the club assistants will be worded as "I do not want foul throws at all costs"
Click to expand...

Lesson learnt - move on - good approach
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Ah yeah, forgot you guys like to act like a plane is coming in to land just because you've seen something ;-)

Your thought processes have let you down here. A throw has been taken, the flag goes up before it touches a player - offside is not possible, so foul throw is the most logical possibility here, so you should have gone with that instead of letting the slightly incorrect signal give you too much of an indication on what it is (don't forget these are CAR's, they don't know all the details of signalling - you're often left trying to figure out what they're trying to tell you!)
Heck, if you were near the AR you could even have asked him while play was continuing!

You would cop a bit of dissent I'm sure, but there wouldn't have been a goal involved.

As for the reporting - if you felt unsafe at the time then certainly report the players and note in the report that you didn't show a card for that reason. You were able to identify the players?
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flip it this way, I blow for a foul throw and the club assistant says he raised his flag for offside....... remember they don't know all the rules etc but I see where your coming from.

Yes players were identified.
 
Ryan, very simply do not allow CARs to give you anything other than ball in/out of play and offside.

My process for CARs would be to talk to both lino's in front of the captains before the toss, and just briefly tell them their ONLY job is ball in/out of play and offside, against which you will be the final judge. No fouls, foul throws or any other input. Simple.

Why? Two reasons - 1) in front of the captains means you have witnesses to what the lino's job is, and 2) ball in/out and offside is all you can 'trust' them to do properly, as you have just found. In all likelihood the CAR has cheated a little and you've been caught in the middle.

What did you expect the CAR to do when you asked him where the foot was? Of course he is going to to take a hugely exaggerated step over the line to make the point. I found myself in a similar situation a few years ago and that is why I am now very specific. I even had this when being assessed in the past, and the advice was to make sure any change of lino is met with a quick talk to ensure they have had the instructions passed to them.
 
Ryan Woods said:
flip it this way, I blow for a foul throw and the club assistant says he raised his flag for offside....... remember they don't know all the rules etc but I see where your coming from.

.
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I think in that scenario it's far, far more likely that he would have correctly spotted a foul throw than gotten an offside decision so grossly incorrect. I mean, there's not knowing the laws, and there's not knowing the laws ;-)

If you blow and he says it was for offside I'd just retake the throw. Technically it's a DB but I think we can stick with the throw there.

So, even if the AR got it wrong, blowing is a better outcome than if you allow play to continue and find he got it wrong :)
 
I agree! i missed the finer details...........i should know better!
I do brief in-front of captains with CAR that i want ball in/out of play, off-sides, goal kicks and corners! i also brief that if I feel they have made a mistake in their judgement then I will go with my own decision and don't get upset. I don't want fouls, hand ball, tugging however if you get abused please in form me and I will back you.

I never ask for foul throws yet never tell them not to either, this will now be included.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Ah yeah, forgot you guys like to act like a plane is coming in to land just because you've seen something ;-)

Your thought processes have let you down here. A throw has been taken, the flag goes up before it touches a player - offside is not possible, so foul throw is the most logical possibility here, so you should have gone with that instead of letting the slightly incorrect signal give you too much of an indication on what it is (don't forget these are CAR's, they don't know all the details of signalling - you're often left trying to figure out what they're trying to tell you!)
Heck, if you were near the AR you could even have asked him while play was continuing!

You would cop a bit of dissent I'm sure, but there wouldn't have been a goal involved.

As for the reporting - if you felt unsafe at the time then certainly report the players and note in the report that you didn't show a card for that reason. You were able to identify the players?
Click to expand...
I've had CAR's who don't know you can't be offside from a throw in - I think the OP's thought process pretty closely matches what I would think if an assistant appeared to flag for an offside from a throw.
 
Ive had one of these Catch 22 situations before. Red team striker runs towards goal with the ball and is in/on the edge of the area, white team defender tackles from behind and misses the ball, 100% banker of a foul so i immediately signal for a penalty. CAR flag up so i walk over and ask "are you signalling for an offside?", CAR replies "no, it was outside the box". "Thank you Mr CAR, if you are not flagging for offside its a penalty."

Queue protests from CAR stating "its outside the box, i am trying to help you" and other white team players telling me that "i am allowed to change my mind etc"

I remain firm and we continue from the penalty mark and the keeper makes a great save

Had i changed my mind red team would have been the ones protesting.!!!!
 
This season I'm acting as a car I was told first game Sunday as part of the pre match to give a foul throw if there foot crossed the line and it was on the pitch
 
Foul throw? What's one of those?

It's a mechanism to get the ball into play......nothing more nothing less. Got far more important things to think about.

Really glad CARs round here are o Lynn allowed to give in and out of play!
 
Mintyref said:
Foul throw? What's one of those?

It's a mechanism to get the ball into play......nothing more nothing less. Got far more important things to think about.

Really glad CARs round here are o Lynn allowed to give in and out of play!
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That should be only not o Lynn the well known Irish opera singer....
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Your thought processes have let you down here. A throw has been taken, the flag goes up before it touches a player - offside is not possible....QUOTE]
According to the letter of the law offside is not possible, as referees we know this, however we are about talking club assistants. Last season I had a CAR flag immediately for offside from a throw in, I shouted play on and spoke to him at the next stoppage in play and he confirmed he had indeed for offside by mistake.
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