A&H

Clash of Heads

Tino Best

Tino Best

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Blues v greens tight game at 2-1 to Blues.Blue defender and green striker both go for a high ball and there is a clash of heads. Green goes down and I blow to stop the game. Only 10 mins left. Coach comes on ,green player is in tears, coach is there for about 5 mins seeing if she is alright with a constant shouting/encouragement from Mum saying come on we need you. I thought the coach was going to take the player off but keeps her on the pitch. She was their best player and their only goal threat.
This was a under 15 game.
Should I have insisted she be subbed as it was a head injury. She could have come back as it is rolling subs.
I am not sure if I could have insisted that she is replaced for a while. As a parent I thought she should of been off the field at least for 5 mins to make sure she is properly ok.
I am not sure of the rules so be please kind!
 
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You're not a doctor and you're not in a position to determine that there was a concussion. Head impact doesn't mean there's been concussion - neither does the player being in tears. As referees we're unable to make the judgement of 'that player looks like they should be off for a while after that knock'

What was happening for the coach to take so long on the field? Was there any way to speed it up? You can't force anything to happen, but you can ask the coach if the player is able to be moved.
 
Common sense here suggests you tell the coach and the player that the player has to leave the field temporarily.
You really shouldn't be thinking about teams getting tactical advantages or disadvantages here.
Especially with rolling subs this will give the coach further opportunity to check the player, it also gives you another opportunity to stop the game and check the player again if/when they try to bring the player back on. If you have any doubts at all that the player is able to continue then you can stop them coming back on.
Especially in youth football - and with the best will in the world - you have to be cautious about trusting coaches 100% here.

At least this is what I would do/have done. No one complains when you tell that the player needs a minute on the sideline after any kind of head impact IMHO.
 
think also you could have insisted the player leave the FOP after having received treatment in any case... that gives player and coach a few extra moments to consider things .
Its not really our place to monitor injuries in general, but if you have concerns, make sure the coach knows exactly where he stands...''keep an eye on this player, he/she has had knock to the head"
 
My only advise and what I do is always with head injuries, I tell the coach to keep an eye on them and also tell the player no matter what age if they feel dizzy or sick at all to inform me immediately. Also, any sign of unconsciousness I refuse to allow them to play on ambulance end of story, better safe than sorry.
 
This came up on my course about 4 months ago. We were basically told unless glaringly obvious (lack of balance, wandering eyes etc) that it's not our place to make the decision but at the end of the day, our job is to look out for the players safety and wellbeing. Giving them a few minutes of the pitch I would say is the ideal scenario but dependent on the situation of the pitch (score line etc), the manager/players wouldn't always agree!
 
I agree, it's not our place to insist on a substitution. However, we do have some responsibility so if I had concerns for a players welfare I would alert managers/coaches to keep an eye on him/her. Having said that, I can't recall any incidents in games where a genuinely injured player has not been properly dealt with.
 
Thanks for all the advice. There was never a loss of conciousness,and she did leave the pitch after treatment. She seemed fine but next time I will talk to the player and say about feeling dizzy etc, I did keep a close eye on her for a while. Cheers
guys.
 
There has been a lot of talk recently about the fact that football in general is not taking the risks of concussion seriously enough. As it stands however, it is true that a referee has no power to insist that a player cannot return after treatment for a head injury.

At higher levels where teams have a qualified physio and/or doctor in attendance the referee could reasonably expect that these individuals should take care of the player's welfare and defer to them but at youth level teams will often not have a qualified medical professional on staff.

So if the coaches or parents will not take the appropriate action, it seems unfortunate that the referee, certainly when it comes to younger players, is not empowered to do so.

While I don't see any indication of the IFAB adopting a concussion protocol at least in the near future I wonder if they might eventually (again, at least at youth level or in situations where there are no medical personnel available) consider adopting an approach similar to that used in US High Schools.

NFHS rule 3-3 Article 2.a) 3 states that:
Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the contest and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health-care professional.
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The thing is, most US High Schools will have medical professionals on the sideline as well to assess this stuff. It's normally a parent who is a doctor who volunteers for the role, but they actually manage this far better than the UK does.
 
I wish my high school did. I have a permanent brain injury from playing high school rugby league. God knocked out, woke up with a stutter.
This was about 16 years ago before this was a big issue - nobody checked me out, coach wasn't bothered. It had to be my decision to go off and that was only because my hand-eye coordination was shot to bits and I didn't want to drop the ball!!!
 
with this particular case one thing we should consider is that it's a children's game so we do have extra, safeguarding responsibilty. if i think the player is distressed, and is only staying because someone is shouting they need them on then, i may insist the player stays off the
 
pankaye said:
with this particular case one thing we should consider is that it's a children's game so we do have extra, safeguarding responsibilty. if i think the player is distressed, and is only staying because someone is shouting they need them on then, i may insist the player stays off the
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I agree with you that ideally, a child in this situation would be better off not continuing to play but how would you justify this in Law? As has been pointed out, the Laws do not officially give the referee the power to exclude a player due to an apparent injury - unless it's a blood injury.

The problem is finding a valid excuse to keep the player off the field - if not permanently then at least temporarily. Although as a general principle I don't like bending the Laws I find myself wondering if, since it involves a child's safety, it might be acceptable to say something like, "I think there's a problem with this player's equipment. Until I'm satisfied that it's been corrected, they can't come back on."
OIREF! said:
I can't recall any incidents in games where a genuinely injured player has not been properly dealt with.
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Oh, I can. There have been a number of fairly high-profile incidents of players being concussed and going on to score goals that they couldn't even remember. Then there was German player Christoph Kramer in the 2014 World Cup Final who was concussed, allowed back on and was only removed 14 minutes later after collapsing to the ground.
 
Tino Best said:
Blues v greens tight game at 2-1 to Blues.Blue defender and green striker both go for a high ball and there is a clash of heads. Green goes down and I blow to stop the game. Only 10 mins left. Coach comes on ,green player is in tears, coach is there for about 5 mins seeing if she is alright with a constant shouting/encouragement from Mum saying come on we need you. I thought the coach was going to take the player off but keeps her on the pitch. She was their best player and their only goal threat.
This was a under 15 game.
Should I have insisted she be subbed as it was a head injury. She could have come back as it is rolling subs.
I am not sure if I could have insisted that she is replaced for a while. As a parent I thought she should of been off the field at least for 5 mins to make sure she is properly ok.
I am not sure of the rules so be please kind!
Click to expand...
As a referee you are responsible for the SAFETY of the players. If you felt that the head injury was severe enough to warrant a break, you can ask the player to leave the field. (but you can't force a sub).

At that age if they're down for 2+ mins there is usually something not right
 
Ryan4 said:
As a referee you are responsible for the SAFETY of the players. If you felt that the head injury was severe enough to warrant a break, you can ask the player to leave the field. (but you can't force a sub).

At that age if they're down for 2+ mins there is usually something not right
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. You don't need excuses. If you think the player safety and welfare is imperiled then you gave to take action. That is what you are there for as a referee. Especially if they are children in which case you may have a legal obligation
 
While I agree that referees are not doctors, neither are managers. There is a reason why everyone here took a safeguarding children course when they applied to be a referee.

It sounds like a mess, first priority would to be to make sure the kid is alright. Check he or she isn't bleeding or such. From there on, I'd be considering telling the manager to tell the child's parent to calm down. Even though she might have good intentions, she's not helping the situation and it isn't her decision to make.

Have a word with the manager, and the player. Make sure they both are happy to continue. From there, if you think no serious injury or issues, allow play to restart as per usual.

If you have any doubts about concussion, then keep the player off the field of play, and ask respectfully that he or she is substituted if possible.

Remember that a concussed player does not only pose a risk to themselves, but other players as well. It's possible that in their impaired state, they could do something rash or incorrect. While you cannot force a substitution, you can refuse a player to continue for as long as you deem necessary, typically until you're happy they're fit to come back on the field of play (although depending on the extent of the injury, they might not be fit to return for the whole game).

One of the referees duties is the safeguarding of players. It says so in the laws of the game. It is important to remember we are there for the players, not the other way round.

It's a tricky situation, but if the player is feeling sick and dizzy, and showing signs of concussion, or any serious injury really, then they should not be allowed on the field of play. I appreciate that at that level, you do not have physios or medical staff (I personally think every youth club should have at least one medical/well-being staff on standby for all the games at that venue), and the player may not know the extent of their injuries themselves, but just as you cannot force a substitute, you cannot force a player to continue either.

Additionally, the FA released a concussion guideline this season for youth football specifically. I'll upload it to the resources if I can find it, and I think everyone should take a minute or two to read it.
 
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The only time I've insisted a player got taken off was when I asked the player a few questions, he didn't know where they were playing or how many players were on his team at the time (they were down a couple of guys) so I asked him to go off. He didn't want to go off, but I was worried for his safety. If you're unsure the player is safe or not then you need to think about taking some sort of action to ensure player safety.
 
In my view, whether we can/should force the removal of a player in such cases comes down to one thing ... have you seen something that makes you believe there might be a concussion?

If you've seen one of the things listed in FA guidance as being a sign for recognising potential concussion, then you can defend your decision to remove the player ... a concussion is a serious injury, and the laws of the game give the referee the power and duty to remove a seriously injured player from the field. FA guidance would then prevent the player from returning without clearance from a doctor.

However, if you can't identify a specific reason for making a judgement of a potential concussion, I don't believe you could defend a decision to remove a player.
 
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