Comms kit hire

[socal lurker]

They should only be used in competitions when they are used in every game, otherwise competition integrity can be compromised.

While I don't disagree with your overall thesis that they are unnecessary and can backfire, I completely disagree with the idea that competition integrity is compromised. The fact a mistake is avoided in one game and not another is totally unpersuasive to me. Taken to an extreme, it would mean the same referee should call all the games in a competition, as I might be more likely to call a marginal PK where you may be more likely to call it trifling, so it isn't fair if a similar play in two games went different ways. In each game, the two teams had an even playing field, and that is what really matters. (Now whether there might be outcry if an error wasn't fixed in a game, sure, but there is outcry any time there is an error (or perceived error) that affects a fan's team.)

 

[JamesL]

While I don't disagree with your overall thesis that they are unnecessary and can backfire, I completely disagree with the idea that competition integrity is compromised. The fact a mistake is avoided in one game and not another is totally unpersuasive to me. Taken to an extreme, it would mean the same referee should call all the games in a competition, as I might be more likely to call a marginal PK where you may be more likely to call it trifling, so it isn't fair if a similar play in two games went different ways. In each game, the two teams had an even playing field, and that is what really matters. (Now whether there might be outcry if an error wasn't fixed in a game, sure, but there is outcry any time there is an error (or perceived error) that affects a fan's team.)

You also have to consider the advantage it can give a referee over another.
When promotion can be decided over 0.01 of a mark (true story!) It's not fair that a referee can gain an advantage because he can afford "better tools".
So whilst the integrity of the football competition might not be impacted it certainly could impact the integrity of retention and promotion of referees

 

[socal lurker]

You also have to consider the advantage it can give a referee over another.
When promotion can be decided over 0.01 of a mark (true story!) It's not fair that a referee can gain an advantage because he can afford "better tools".
So whilst the integrity of the football competition might not be impacted it certainly could impact the integrity of retention and promotion of referees

I don't disagree with that either. I think there are a lot of reasons not to use comms when not authorized--I just don't think competition integrity is one of them.

 

[RefGod]

There is also the integrity issue of those who operate on the WSL with comms whilst remaining at Step2/3&4 within the men's game. Many of the WSL assistants are no higher than level 5, if that. Step 2 officials do not use comms which is staggering considering the professionalism coming down.

Interesting to know how the level 7 OP got on in the fixture, with or without a comms kit.

 

[RustyRef]

While I don't disagree with your overall thesis that they are unnecessary and can backfire, I completely disagree with the idea that competition integrity is compromised. The fact a mistake is avoided in one game and not another is totally unpersuasive to me. Taken to an extreme, it would mean the same referee should call all the games in a competition, as I might be more likely to call a marginal PK where you may be more likely to call it trifling, so it isn't fair if a similar play in two games went different ways. In each game, the two teams had an even playing field, and that is what really matters. (Now whether there might be outcry if an error wasn't fixed in a game, sure, but there is outcry any time there is an error (or perceived error) that affects a fan's team.)

It is using technology in one league game and not another. That isn't a lot different to using VAR in one game in a league but not in another in the same competition, it just wouldn't be acceptable.

The bottom line is they are not authorised so should not be being used below step 1 in England.

 

[es1]

It is using technology in one league game and not another. That isn't a lot different to using VAR in one game in a league but not in another in the same competition, it just wouldn't be acceptable.

The bottom line is they are not authorised so should not be being used below step 1 in England.

We do that all the time in the cups

 

[RustyRef]

We do that all the time in the cups

Not the same though, as a cup match only affects that game and the two teams involved. Whereas the outcome of a league game can affect the entire season.

 

[es1]

Not the same though, as a cup match only affects that game and the two teams involved. Whereas the outcome of a league game can affect the entire season.

It's similar, granted not the same.

It affects teams in the competition who would otherwise benefit potentially leading to a team going through/out who would have gone through/out if the game was at a different venue. Could potentially impact who wins the cup...

 

[RustyRef]

It's similar, granted not the same.

It affects teams in the competition who would otherwise benefit potentially leading to a team going through/out who would have gone through/out if the game was at a different venue. Could potentially impact who wins the cup...

Yes, but doesn't directly affect any teams not playing in an individual cup game. Take a scenario where Man City play Liverpool in a league game where VAR is used and City get a penalty through VAR that contributed to getting them 3 points. Liverpool then play Arsenal where there is no VAR, they have a penalty should exactly the same as the one given against them to Man City but the officials miss it. That would directly affect the integrity of the competition.

Conversely Liverpool play Blackburn at Ewood Park in a FA Cup game. They again have a similar penalty shout, again the officials miss it and it isn't given as there is no VAR in use. The only two teams that affects are Blackburn and Liverpool, it has zero effect on any other team.

 

[es1]

Yes, but doesn't directly affect any teams not playing in an individual cup game. Take a scenario where Man City play Liverpool in a league game where VAR is used and City get a penalty through VAR that contributed to getting them 3 points. Liverpool then play Arsenal where there is no VAR, they have a penalty should exactly the same as the one given against them to Man City but the officials miss it. That would directly affect the integrity of the competition.

Conversely Liverpool play Blackburn at Ewood Park in a FA Cup game. They again have a similar penalty shout, again the officials miss it and it isn't given as there is no VAR in use. The only two teams that affects are Blackburn and Liverpool, it has zero effect on any other team.

It absolutely does! Because teams would rather play Blackburn than Liverpool

 

[RustyRef]

It absolutely does! Because teams would rather play Blackburn than Liverpool

That's a real stretch, either team could get the benefit of a VAR check.

 

[TheFoodieReferee]

Thought I may as well jump in on this, had my a game on the line today with a Swiss ref who brought comms. Never used them before and it certainly was an eye opening experience. When you’re at this kind of level, you really don’t want the added complexity and distraction of comms in there. Incredibly useful piece of kit, but just not at this level.

 

[socal lurker]

That's a real stretch, either team could get the benefit of a VAR check.

Well, that’s always true, isn’t it? Those other teams outside the match with VAR (or comms, or GLT, or OS tech Or a better R or AR) could equally benefit or not from it.