A&H

Corruption

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RyantheRef said:
This is my point. The Premier League is the best competition so why not let the best referees officiate those matches? Marciniak is wasted on Ekstraklasa matches.
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Football is under pressure to do something about its carbon footprint. Flying referees all over Europe for league games as well as UEFA games is hardly going to contribute to that.
 
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RustyRef said:
Football is under pressure to do something about its carbon footprint. Flying referees all over Europe for league games as well as UEFA games is hardly going to contribute to that.
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There's no reason to fly them around. Move them to England if they're going to be Premier League referees. Let the PGMOL sign referees from all over and bring them to England. Let English referees sign professional contracts with other competitions as well.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Last few months, if not longer, keep seeing posts on social media when decisions go against their teams, it's always corruption. Refs are corrupt. Don't want certain teams to win, or doing favours for other teams, being bought etc.
Not intentionally judging, but it mostly comes from Africans (judging by the profiles posting), but even a lot of Europeans, if not British, are saying corruption now.

For example, the incident in the Newcastle v Arsenal game - must be corruption as they don't want to upset Saudis, or don't want to see Arsenal win the league.
Or when Liverpool offside goal recently that shouldn't have been.
I'm not saying I agree. Just pointing out that when something happens, that they feel is incorrect, whether it is or not, it's classed as corruption and not just a mistake/error/incompetence.

Yet when Nunez put the ball into Watford yesterday instead of the goal when it was easier to score, that's not corruption, that's just "cr@p".
Or when Antonio shot wide from an open goal at the back post in the Brentford v West Ham game Saturday, when Benrahma had an even easier tap in (Antonio should've scored himself!), it was poor, and not corruption.

Why is it that if a referee makes a mistake, it's corruption, but a player, it's just poor?
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I've seen a lot of this about authority in a lot of sports.
It happens in Rugby League here in Australia, and I've seen similar comments about Formula 1 over the past 3 years (at least).

It goes alongside the comments from Ange Postecoglu today re: old school attitude and respect towards referees.
 
Most of the shouts of corruption are from people trying to find an excuse for their favourite team of multi-millionaire mercenaries not winning that week. As far as I'm aware there's never been any evidence whatsoever of corruption within English football, at least in my lifetime, and almost universally the people making these comments have never cracked open a copy of the Gospel According to IFAB, so they haven't a clue why what they're watching is happening.

Doesn't feel any better when it comes down to our level and I get called a cheat, mind.
 
JBeil said:
Most of the shouts of corruption are from people trying to find an excuse for their favourite team of multi-millionaire mercenaries not winning that week. As far as I'm aware there's never been any evidence whatsoever of corruption within English football, at least in my lifetime, and almost universally the people making these comments have never cracked open a copy of the Gospel According to IFAB, so they haven't a clue why what they're watching is happening.

Doesn't feel any better when it comes down to our level and I get called a cheat, mind.
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I mean, that attitude is almost exactly my point.

Italian refs have been proven to have been bribed in the past. Barcelona are currently in Spanish courts defending themselves against accusations of bribing referees less than 10 years ago. But should we consider the possibility that the same thing might happen in England? No, impossible, bury our heads in the sand, deny even the possibility that our good, honest, British officials could ever possibly be unduly influenced in the exact same way.

Pretending it could never happen and so we don't need to bother scrutinising is exactly how the space is created for corruption to occur. Sure, idiots on twitter are going to be idiots on twitter, but that doesn't mean the possibility doesn't exist and shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
I'm not saying that it's never going to happen, hasn't happened, or is happening...

But when you have players conning referees left right and centre, fans blame the referees for giving it when they should be directing their anger at the players for being dishonest.

Ange said in his post match yesterday, if I'm correct, that managers will look at the "rules" and try to bend them. All managers, all players.... So if the players and coaches can't be honest on the field, it makes it infinity harder for referees to make calls. A referee can be spot on with the call made, but players are doing their best to convince the referee otherwise. And fans see players complaining, and "join in" thinking the players must be right when even they don't know the "laws" themselves or try to bend/break them.

Take Luton's goal the other night. Whilst they were attacking, most of the Liverpool team were still in the area screaming for a penalty for handball. This continued on social media. Fans saying that refs are useless and corrupt. All because Liverpool stopped playing and conceded to Luton in the process. Because the likes of VVD assumed it was, the fans think so too.
But they won't mention Nunez and his horrific miss being corrupt to stop Liverpool from winning. Maybe he had a bet on that Liverpool wouldn't score first....
 
Interesting choice to use the Liverpool game as an example when there was a definite missed penalty in that IMO, just not for the incident you're talking about!

Regardless, that's whataboutism. Yes player cheat and that should be condemned more. And we know that occasionally players do more than just in-game simulation - because two PL players are currently serving bans for that. So the scrutiny there does exist. And sure, maybe it's more widespread than we know and more testing/investigation could be beneficial.

But none of that changes the fact that PGMOL don't help themselves with their rules around officials. Both can be true, players diving and worse doesn't cancel out the possibility of corruption in refereeing. We're complex and intelligent people, we can hold two facts in our heads at the same time.
 
GraemeS said:
Interesting choice to use the Liverpool game as an example when there was a definite missed penalty in that IMO, just not for the incident you're talking about!

Regardless, that's whataboutism. Yes player cheat and that should be condemned more. And we know that occasionally players do more than just in-game simulation - because two PL players are currently serving bans for that. So the scrutiny there does exist. And sure, maybe it's more widespread than we know and more testing/investigation could be beneficial.

But none of that changes the fact that PGMOL don't help themselves with their rules around officials. Both can be true, players diving and worse doesn't cancel out the possibility of corruption in refereeing. We're complex and intelligent people, we can hold two facts in our heads at the same time.
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I didn't watch the match in its entirety as at work (I manage a major bookies branch ironically).
So can't comment on a penalty missed.

Just used it as it was one of the last few games I've watched and remember it well.
 
JamesL said:
To be honest, it's slanderous and libelous. It's about time people were held to account (i.e. prosecuted) for things they post online.

At risk of sounding like Donald Trump but the world is full of fake news. Mainstream & social media is full of deliberately sensationalist, inaccurate, and downright false reporting, allowed through their platforms.

Examples, with respect to refereeing just this week:

1) Anthony Taylor demoted
Not one of those articles mentioned that PGMOL have a requirement to cover so many EFL games and also forgot to mention that Darren England was also covering a game in the Championship.

Even if he was demoted it has not been confirmed from an official source, therefore reporting it as a fact, as it has been done, is out of order.

2) "the officials couldn't be sure the ball went out of play".
This is so misleading. What this fails to recognise is that there was 1 official who made a judgement the ball had not left the field of play. The VAR could not find a conclusive angle to show this was a clear and obvious error. Its quite subtle but ultimately they are two very different things.

and it's referees who are corrupt?
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I’ve said it before-a few of these people who post about being corrupt should be sued for defamation. Accounts are tied to emails, so it would be easy to tie back to a person.

Get a few people liable for damages, publicize it, and we’ll see how tough people are to accuse corruption behind a social media paywall.
 
Hate to say, the posts I alluded too were mostly from accounts originating from African countries, who, let's be honest, are just click bait accounts.
But it's really getting out there now.

The Nottingham Forest game brought home some comments from "locals" who are now saying the refs/PGMOL/PL are corrupt.

Do these people know the actual definition of corrupt?

Might agree with they "appear" to be bad, but never corrupt.
Everyone has bad days. Including players. But never hear of players being corrupt from the fans/media. Especially fans of their own players.
Fans may say the likes of Bruno Fernandes is "corrupt" with his cheating but a Man Utd fan will likely not say it.

Nottingham Forest fans are upset they lost out on a point because of a refereeing decision earlier in the game (I mean 90-120 seconds earlier). But what about the previous 97 minutes (taking in to account the restart being about 97 minutes gone).
One on Talksport radio phone in mentions the word "corrupt" literally, but fails to call out CHO trying to walk the ball out of his area moments before the goal, between the drop ball and the goal being scored. He had chances to clear his lines. Is that corrupt from CHO, wanting Forest to lose? Of course not. Not their agenda.
Plenty of misplaced passes. Corrupt? No. Just simple errors.
 
It's the 21st century. Everybody who once only had an opinion, now has an opinion and a voice thanks to the internet and social media.

Treat the cr@p with the contempt it deserves. As for Africans claiming "corruption" well, they always will because that's what they're used to ...
 
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