Got a good micro tip from my assessor on the weekend

[GraemeS]

Moving across the D with the ball in the air seems like a generally poor idea to me? I've done it once (off the back of an observer telling me to move more, naturally) and blocked a midfielder positioned for a shot off the clearance. Might just be bad luck, but I see that as player space, at least until the ball is either cleared further than that or becomes bogged down in a scramble.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Moving across the D with the ball in the air seems like a generally poor idea to me? I've done it once (off the back of an observer telling me to move more, naturally) and blocked a midfielder positioned for a shot off the clearance. Might just be bad luck, but I see that as player space, at least until the ball is either cleared further than that or becomes bogged down in a scramble.

This is why you need to be aware of your surroundings when the kick taker is setting up. If a player is quite clearly placing himself on the edge of the box to make a late run, it’s up to you to be aware. Maybe even ask him/her what their plan is so you can alter your positioning/movement on this

 

[GraemeS]

This is why you need to be aware of your surroundings when the kick taker is setting up. If a player is quite clearly placing himself on the edge of the box to make a late run, it’s up to you to be aware. Maybe even ask him/her what their plan is so you can alter your positioning/movement on this

It's been a while since I've been at a game where I haven't seen an attacker hovering around the edge of the box - either to make a late run as you say, or to collect/shoot from half-clearances. It seems like such a standard piece of set-up for corners, hence my surprise at advice suggesting to run through that area!

 

[RefIADad]

While I do think “making a run” is overkill, the general advice of always be in motion and varying your position is sound.

I was on a webinar a few years ago with a well-respected MLS referee. The topic was positioning, and he illustrated how even a short 5-10 yard sprint or 2-3 shuffle steps can make a world of difference in positioning. It was one of the best referee training sessions I’ve ever attended, and I use those ideas and tips to this day.

So on corners, I’d keep it pretty simple. Don’t always start in the same place, read the players, and move to where you’ll get a good view of the drop zone. If you do those things, you’ll end up in a good spot more often than not.

 

[RyantheRef]

Moving across the D with the ball in the air seems like a generally poor idea to me? I've done it once (off the back of an observer telling me to move more, naturally) and blocked a midfielder positioned for a shot off the clearance. Might just be bad luck, but I see that as player space, at least until the ball is either cleared further than that or becomes bogged down in a scramble.

Well if the ball is moving out toward the top of the PA, then you wouldn't run across the D. Otherwise, I can't see the issue, if the ball is looping back post, with side-stepping across the D, facing the gaggle of players. Even if someone is making a run into the box, just don't run into them.

 

[GraemeS]

Well if the ball is moving out toward the top of the PA, then you wouldn't run across the D. Otherwise, I can't see the issue, if the ball is looping back post, with side-stepping across the D, facing the gaggle of players. Even if someone is making a run into the box, just don't run into them.

If someone is making a run into the box and I'm potentially about to get in their way, I should be looking almost 180° away from where they are! If there's a choice between standing where I am/making a small move, or making a big run but having to check in the opposite direction, I'd rather take the more static option most of the time.

A player who's hovering there is doing so because they anticipate having to either make a run in or collect a ball coming out. It might not go that way, but they're still going to expect a free run and I rarely see the benefit of going into that area during the initial corner over just pushing in or around on the side where you already are.

 

[RyantheRef]

If someone is making a run into the box and I'm potentially about to get in their way, I should be looking almost 180° away from where they are! If there's a choice between standing where I am/making a small move, or making a big run but having to check in the opposite direction, I'd rather take the more static option most of the time.

A player who's hovering there is doing so because they anticipate having to either make a run in or collect a ball coming out. It might not go that way, but they're still going to expect a free run and I rarely see the benefit of going into that area during the initial corner over just pushing in or around on the side where you already are.

In general, choosing the static option is the wrong choice. And you should be always scanning, so there should be no problem realizing and anticipating the late run from the attacker. I can tell you that most referees at a high level make this exact run across the top of the box and I can count on one hand the number of times that it has caused any kind of issue -- and even then, they've been minor.

 

[GraemeS]

In general, choosing the static option is the wrong choice. And you should be always scanning, so there should be no problem realizing and anticipating the late run from the attacker. I can tell you that most referees at a high level make this exact run across the top of the box and I can count on one hand the number of times that it has caused any kind of issue -- and even then, they've been minor.

The more static option. There's always a less static option, but take that too far and it's just mindless sprinting for the sake of it.

I think we must be talking at cross-purposes then, because I don't think referees at the top levels do what I think you're saying at all. They trust the AR to inform them over comms of anything happening on the blind side and they might run across when the ball is no longer bobbling around at head-height if there's a scramble on the ARs side, but there's no good reason to go anywhere near the D when the ball could be about to find its way there.

 

[Big Cat]

Lots of evidence of Observer brainwashing throughout this topic. Just 'move to get a good view' would put it all into 'non-observer' speak
If you get a KMD right, you were in a good spot, get it wrong and you were not, regardless of whether there was luck involved in that positioning

 

[RustyRef]

Lots of evidence of Observer brainwashing throughout this topic. Just 'move to get a good view' would put it all into 'non-observer' speak
If you get a KMD right, you were in a good spot, get it wrong and you were not, regardless of whether there was luck involved in that positioning

Hence my comment, don't move just for the sake of it, move to get the best viewing angle.

 

[RustyRef]

Moving across the D with the ball in the air seems like a generally poor idea to me? I've done it once (off the back of an observer telling me to move more, naturally) and blocked a midfielder positioned for a shot off the clearance. Might just be bad luck, but I see that as player space, at least until the ball is either cleared further than that or becomes bogged down in a scramble.

If you take up a near post position and the ball goes long you are moving way before there is any risk of you getting in the way. As the corner is coming in move sideways across the D and you'll be out of the danger zone before the ball has even been touched.

 

[GraemeS]

How fast do people think they are? If I decide I need to get from a couple of meters outside the D one side to the equivalent position on the other side, that's a couple of seconds of head-down sprinting and a little bit longer if I actually try to watch the play while moving. Easily enough time for the ball to land on the head of a defender and be half-cleared towards me.

And yes, that could happen anywhere - but there's only one area where players will be stood imagining themselves as peak Gerrard ready to smash in a 25-yard thunderbolt!

And I still don't really see the point. If the ball gets stuck in a goalmouth scramble at the near post and I've started on far-post side then of course I'll push in and around at that point for a better view. But just starting to sprint across when the ball's in the air absolutely feels like movement for the sake of it.

 

[Big Cat]

Hence my comment, don't move just for the sake of it, move to get the best viewing angle.

I think we're in full agreement on this one. I think Referees should ask themselves the Q) am I moving for my benefit or that of the observer....
I think if folk are honest with themselves, the latter is the answer all too often
I still think the traditional position wins out on most occasions. Notwithstanding predicting front/back post according to in/out swinger, learning from previous corners and watching out for short corners, the traditional position is superior to central or front post positioning because you can see your AR, you're unlikely to get in the way and it's as good a bet as any to get a good view

Ultimately, if the KMD is right, the position is good. If the R gets the Match Changing Situation wrong, the position is bad. That's what should be paramount to the observer, even though there's crystal ball luck involved in that positioning. It's the KMD that's King, not the excessive movement for the sake of it. I think the observing/marking system must be infinitely more accurate and pertinent at higher levels where games are video reviewed. KMD's count for a lot more. Alas at my level, the observer has to differentiate between referees using infinitely less important criteria (like varied movement at corners) because they O can't be as certain when it comes to whether a R got a MCS right or not.

 

[RyantheRef]

If I decide I need to get from a couple of meters outside the D one side to the equivalent position on the other side, that's a couple of seconds of head-down sprinting and a little bit longer if I actually try to watch the play while moving.

It is, at most, a second of side stepping. Before the corner is struck, you're going to be "bouncing" on your toes ready to move and you'll know from the run up and the player movement before the kick that it's going far post.

 

[GraemeS]

It is, at most, a second of side stepping. Before the corner is struck, you're going to be "bouncing" on your toes ready to move and you'll know from the run up and the player movement before the kick that it's going far post.

If you're an Olympic gold medal sprinter, you'll need 2 seconds to decide you should start moving and go from static to a point 10m in front of you. Personally, I'm not quite that fast (particularly when moving sideways on potentially wet pitches), so I think budgeting for 4-5 seconds of side-stepping is if anything, still cutting it a bit fine.

So the question remains - are the benefits of spending 4-5 seconds "in the way" of someone who thinks they're about to score a thunderbolt likely to be worth moving to get the same view from the other side?

 

[Runner-Ref]

I can’t believe this thread is still going on!

If you don’t want to move on a corner, don’t.

I doubt people are moving to simply tick the box of an observer. Going back a few years, there would be set positions that observers would expect you in. Nowadays you can stand wherever you want, you just need to be able to justify it. Personally I would always recommend to be on the move rather than static.

If you are in a players way on the edge of the box, this is generally a case of you being in the way. As you get more experienced, you will read the game better to not be in the way. Simply asking the player on the edge of the box his/her plans is a simple fix