Handball

[boblardo]

Gave a penalty today, for me it was a nailed on handball
Ball crossed in from the right, defender twists his body and plays the ball with the top of his arm (where the arm meets the shoulder!)
For me its a banker of a penalty but the usual "its his shoulder ref" etc
If you don't want the ref to be thinking handball don't give him the opportunity to do so by twisting your body towards the ball arm first!!

Anyway, my question is really where does the arm stop and the shoulder start?

 

[RefJef]

Good question - I was going to ask the very same thing "where does the arm stop and the shoulder start?" after an incident today
(fortunately for me, it was the tricky left winger trying to control the ball on the byline and it bounced off for a goal kick, so no need for a contentious decision, but got me thinking ...)

 

[the walloper]

For me the arm is the bicep area and below.

However, it is much harder to determine a handball offence in this instance if the arm is outstretched, i.e. unnatural position. Even if it does hit the shoulder, 9 times out of 10, you will always think handball due to the position of the arm, and also due to the speed of the play, you can never be 100% certain exactly where the ball has struck. Generally goes by instinct, using the guidance given in the LOTG and coaching, i.e. distance between ball and player, speed of ball, movement of hand to ball, etc.

 

[Trip]

The shoulder is a ball-sand-socket joint. The arm starts at the humerus bone, below the socket. The socket itself is shoulder.

If you hold your arms by your sides the vertical bit is arm, the horizontal bit is shoulder.

 

[Ryan4]

The shoulder is a ball-sand-socket joint. The arm starts at the humerus bone, below the socket. The socket itself is shoulder.

If you hold your arms by your sides the vertical bit is arm, the horizontal bit is shoulder.

The arm is from BELOW the shoulder down, shoulder and arm are different things, only arm is law not shoulder. In my view it is very difficult to 'purposefully handball' with an area above the elbow.

 

[Peter Grove]

I've always heard the maxim (and held to it) that in broad terms, the demarcation line between shoulder and arm is where the seam on most shirts is, where the sleeve is joined on to the body of the shirt.

 

[QuaverRef]

I had one this weekend where the attacker has jumped in the air and used the palm of his hand to push it over the defender, creating a chance which he then scored from. I pulled it back, booked him unsporting behavior which he and the captain then had the nerve to question saying 'handballs aren't unsporting behavior. You've already given a free kick for handball without booking somebody today!'. Players can't seem to establish the difference between being booked for deliberately using your arm to gain an advantage, and it just hitting your arm in an unnatural position.

 

[AlexF]

The arm is from BELOW the shoulder down, shoulder and arm are different things, only arm is law not shoulder. In my view it is very difficult to 'purposefully handball' with an area above the elbow.

The PGMO put out a DOGSO video last summer that has a wonderful example of just this... Player leans out, arm comes out, and it hits him between shoulder and elbow (in that fleshy part of the arm that's clearly arm and not shoulder).

Very purposeful, very deliberate.

It happens a lot more often than you might immediately think.

 

[richard ramjane]

The PGMO put out a DOGSO video last summer that has a wonderful example of just this... Player leans out, arm comes out, and it hits him between shoulder and elbow (in that fleshy part of the arm that's clearly arm and not shoulder).

Very purposeful, very deliberate.

It happens a lot more often than you might immediately think.

exactly that happened during my game yesterday, player protests its his shoulder.