Level 4 Club Marks
- Thread starter wazztie16
- Start date
To be fair to the FA, they are doing.
They've reduced the club mark element to bottom 30%. And also added that if in top half for observers that you can't be reclassified.
The top placed observer merit table referees (+ in the top 70% club marks) will be the ones that are considered for promotion.
Nice way of wasting away the 2.5 hour wait for the flight back!That's a decent walk!!!
I often think there should be a way for referees to "challenge" individual club marks, based on the observer's report. If successful, that mark must be treated as an outlier and removed from the aggregate score.
I wouldn't worry in the slightest - club marks won't matter to you until you're in a position where your observer marks are putting you in the frame for promotion and even then you only need to be middle of the road or better!
A lot of people go around sucking up to clubs for good marks, but that depends on where you are - a lot of it is a game.
On a side note, does anyone know how long it is after a game before we can see the club marks?
Is it the 10th day after? (assuming they were submitted on time) or otherwise?
A lot of people go around sucking up to clubs for good marks, but that depends on where you are - a lot of it is a game.
On a side note, does anyone know how long it is after a game before we can see the club marks?
Is it the 10th day after? (assuming they were submitted on time) or otherwise?
This. Like when a club went straight down the middle on every option when I gave them 3 penalties and 2 red cards in their favour and got a fantastic observer mark last season. That generated me a club mark of 70 which is actually well below average.
You can usually see the mark on the overall tab before the report is available to view.
The report takes up to 30 days even though coaches can view it beforehand.
L4s don't have an 'overall' tab
This season, out marks are visible on the Wednesday morning, a week and a half after a Saturday game
I was thinking 'what's this overall tab' and thought I was being stupid!
Do you know when Tuesday night marks become available to see?
Imo this is sensible for club marks and observations, much like how gymnastics is scored.
Remove the top and bottom score(s) provides a better representation
Not sure when Tuesday night game Club Marks get updated. Probably the Wednesday 13 days later, as I reckon they only run one update per week
FWIW, I think we should just have one overall Merit Table, say... 80% weighting on observer scores and 20% club marks
At least that way promotion/reclassification would entirely transparent and purely be on merit, bereft of positive discrimination
FWIW, I think we should just have one overall Merit Table, say... 80% weighting on observer scores and 20% club marks
At least that way promotion/reclassification would entirely transparent and purely be on merit, bereft of positive discrimination
RefGod
Active Member
What positive discrimination takes place at Supply ?
So apparently if you do a Tuesday game the mark shows on the same Wednesday that games from the previous Saturday show, but you can't view the report yet, guessing until Friday or thereabouts so the time scale is the same.
But, this is exactly what I'm saying....
The below is my club marks for this season so far...
The 2 sub-70 scores? Both from the same club! - and within 0.25 of each other in terms of the mark! and I wouldn't even mind if they had a grievance about something both times, but they won 1 of the matches 5-1 and the only possibly controversial incident was an opposition penalty appeal that I didn't give and the other game they lost 1-0 but both teams were well happy and there wasn't even any cautions in the match.
Does anyone look at the clubs average mark given? Because whoever marks for this club clearly either doesn't like me (odd given that this season is the first time I've refereed them and they're from a different county) or they don't like referees in general and always award terrible marks.
Someone will come back and ask why I'm so bothered given that my other club marks clearly put me in the top half of the table, but I'm not in the top half for the calendar year due to some poor marks from last season, yet my observer marks put me in with an outside chance of mid-season promotion if my club marks don't hold me back, so I really need all the assistance I can get, and these 2 poor marks are keeping me in and around the danger zone.
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RefGod
Active Member
I benefitted from positive discrimination as a 17 year old by means of a reduced BRC fee for under 18s. Considering my situation at the time and that of my parent who paid, this was beneficial for all involved. I've since gone on to officiate above contrib both as an assistant and referee.
The higher you go, particularly above supply, the more chance of getting found out. This was initially about club marks. If anything, up until recent history, those from certain minority groups were unnecessarily being marked down rather than benefitting from any form of organisational bias.
There's sod all you can do about it. I was inside the top 10% for observations as a first-y-l4, but wasn't considered for promotion as I was on the 73rd percentile for club marks
Opposite this year. Had one crappy observation but flying high with clubs. Waiting for Jan to kick-off again because just one sub-average observation score is very hard to recover from (especially given I've only had 2 observations in this calendar year FFS despite 13 step 5 middles)
There's obviously some clubs that score a lot higher than others. I'm certain I was scored in my last game by someone who wasn't even in attendance hahaha. Generally though, I find club marks interesting/curious and I'm in favour of them being a small factor in determining our progress (albeit say 20% and observers 80%)
I dunno.... I mean we all know that discrimination is everywhere, but positive is not much better than negative
I just have a simple mindset... treat everyone the same, but we live in a world where big organisations use one form of discrimination to distance themselves from the other. It's all quite nauseating. Diversity will take care of itself in the absence of ALL forms of discrimination
This is going to get the thread locked pretty quickly I suspect, but that's simply not true. Absent any further discrimination, the world will not magically fix itself, instead the status quo will be maintained. And all that does is cause the previous discrimination to become more entrenched.
We're in a world where it was significant news recently that one SG1 official (out of 50) was not white for the first time in 15 years. That alone should be a fairly clear example for why things aren't right at the moment.
Not all "positive discrimination" is correctly applied, or well thought through, so I'm not just going to blanket cheerlead for anything. But we're not starting from a balanced zero point here - we're starting from a long way behind equality and it takes some effort and work to undo the decisions and established stereotypes that got us to this point.
the fa have their agenda which means they are keen to be seen in a certain light.
For me everybody should be treated equally.
By making things cheaper for only certain people is going to cause anymosity.