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Junior/Youth Managers...

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HarryD

HarryD

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Another nightmare today! Had a quality first half, received loads of compliments from managers and spectators for it. Second half was a different story. Got called a disgrace and that every decision I was making was 'shocking'. The half resulted in 4 bookings and was about to issue a red before the home team manager raced on to the pitch to have a go at me. The away team manager came on as well to ask that he wasn't sent off. In the end, I (weakly) didn't send him off - I'm new to this and the pressure got to me. I also ended up asking both managers to leave the vicinity of the FoP. End of the game came, I told him that I'll be filing a report to the County FA and enquired his name. He refused to oblige - makes misconduct writing more difficult. Afterwards, the Home striker said 'don't come back here ref' to which I booked him - was still on the field of play. Could that have been construed as abusive and therefore a red card offence? That was my second game too. First two games ended in disaster. Great!
 
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Hey Harry!
First of all, make sure you get all of your reports in and fill them out in detail!
Secondly, take it as a learning curve and try improve your mental strength! Keep your chin up buddy!
 
Yeah, I've already done the caution forms, I'm waiting for the mentor to give me a call because when it comes to the misconduct report, I'm slightly clueless. My first ever one, and it's been a pretty dirty game at under 11's. These kids are the same age as my brother and they're asking if I'm blind, and that an official aiding me is a disgrace. That player certainly should have been dismissed, so hopefully the County don't punish me for not applying the laws correctly! Thanks Aaron, I will. It's certainly a learning curve and for my next game I know that I don't care about what any of the club officials say - the worst that can happen is that I'm reported and when it gets sent to county, that they're laughed at for coming out with a load of rubbish!
 
Don't worry about being reported. If county take it seriously you might get an assessor come and watch you to make sure you are doing what you should be - this is nothing to worry about. From what you have said, you are doing what you should and making tough decisions when needed. Teams talk a lot of nonsense, never forget. You did your job in difficult circumstances.

With the managers you did the correct thing. Sent them both away from the fop. Misconduct reports for them both. Get all your reports in as normal.

If you were finding it a dirty bad tempered game, did you adjust your tolerances to match? What I mean by this is greatly reducing the amount of contact/nonsense You allow before taking action be it just giving a foul or cautioning or otherwise. For games which are getting out of control it Reminds the players know who is in charge (the referee).

You mentioned having a mentor which is good. Are you also a member of your local RA? If not join up. Invaluable access to the combined exeprieneces of your more experienced colleagues and a valuable source of support through tough experienced. Almost as good as being a member of this forum!

You have had 2 tough experiences out of the gate. It is not always like this. Really it's not. Honest. :) learn from the experience today (today's lesson of course being that some teams and managers behave badly) put in the reports and move on. As a ref you do need to develop a thick skin and it will come with a bit of time.

2 bits of advice I was given early in my refereeing career: (1) do not let the b words grind you down. (2) if your getting abuse you're probably doing something right ;)
 
Harry, first of all, first games are always tough so don't beat yourself up about it! You did the right thing with the managers. The best thing I can suggest is to fill out a self-assessment. Spend 10-15 minutes writing down things you felt you did well, things you could improve on and things you would do differently next time! Then put it in your bag and spend 5 minutes looking over it in the changing room before you go out for your next game. If you're really concerned, email your RDO and ask him if would consider sending an assessor out.
 
Supermonkey, I remember thanking you for your words of wisdom last week. And it's the same again for this week! I did adjust my tolerances. I'd consider a substitution for frustrated players, but 1) No subs were available and 2) it wasn't that sort of game. I have a thick skin, and I seriously don't care what I'm called - I have the power to apply disciplinary sanctions on players and team officials so at the end of the day, they can call me what they like - it'll only backfire on them! The second bit of advice is probably the most true thing I've heard in a long time! :p
 
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Pierluigi, I felt as though that was necessary this week so I attempted it - I thought my judgement was sound. I reckon this game was just a case of me allowing the pressure of being surrounded to affect my decision to issue the card. Absolutely furious with myself but I'l just put it behind me and carry on - it's good that I had a confrontation so early on in my refereeing career in a way - it means that next time I'm not going to care what they're going to do.
 
HarryD said:
Another nightmare today! Had a quality first half, received loads of compliments from managers and spectators for it. Second half was a different story. Got called a disgrace and that every decision I was making was 'shocking'. The half resulted in 4 bookings and was about to issue a red before the home team manager raced on to the pitch to have a go at me. The away team manager came on as well to ask that he wasn't sent off. In the end, I (weakly) didn't send him off - I'm new to this and the pressure got to me. I also ended up asking both managers to leave the vicinity of the FoP. End of the game came, I told him that I'll be filing a report to the County FA and enquired his name. He refused to oblige - makes misconduct writing more difficult. Afterwards, the Home striker said 'don't come back here ref' to which I booked him - was still on the field of play. Could that have been construed as abusive and therefore a red card offence? That was my second game too. First two games ended in disaster. Great!
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Harry, don't take this in at all the wrong way, I'm not saying that any of this is your fault at all and obviously I don't know enough to properly comment but don't you think 4 cards in an U11's game is a bit much?

Next game, why not try using the stepped approach? You said that people were on your side in the first half and I assume that means the managers as well? Instead of immediately reaching for your pocket why not ask the managers to give them a few minutes off? If you dish out cards left right and centre, they'll lose there power and players won't be afraid of getting one.

Just an idea.
 
Can I ask what the cautions were for? And why you felt it necessary to caution in the context of the game?
 
First yellow: Dissent. Asked me if I was blind. I'd already warned him for dissent twice. I could tell that they were a mouthy team so I felt the caution was necessary. Second caution: Persistent Infringement - three offences in the few minutes after the second half started 1) Dissent 2) Bad challenge 3) Dangerous play so persistent infringement. Stops most offences from occurring.Third caution: Persistent infringement. First warning: Dissent, second warning: Dissent, Third warning: Delaying the restart of play. Same reason as the previous one. Fourth caution: Dissent by telling me to never go there again. It was needed as that was unacceptable. @Padfoot
 
HarryD said:
First yellow: Dissent. Asked me if I was blind. I'd already warned him for dissent twice. I could tell that they were a mouthy team so I felt the caution was necessary. Second caution: Persistent Infringement - three offences in the few minutes after the second half started 1) Dissent 2) Bad challenge 3) Dangerous play so persistent infringement. Stops most offences from occurring.Third caution: Persistent infringement. First warning: Dissent, second warning: Dissent, Third warning: Delaying the restart of play. Same reason as the previous one. Fourth caution: Dissent by telling me to never go there again. It was needed as that was unacceptable. @Padfoot
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I think probably one of those cautions was necessary. In my opinion, that was the first caution you gave out for dissent (you had already warned him, he carried on, fair enough). However, if players were persistently infringing why didn't you ask their manager to take them off? Also, in order for it to be persistent infringement, doesn't it have to be two or three of the SAME offences? As for the final caution, sometimes you just have to be a bit thicker skinned. At the end of the day, the games finished, you've done your job, if an 11 year old wants to play the big man then just ignore him. Why does it matter to you in the slightest what an 11 year old thinks?
 
hattersfan said:
I think probably one of those cautions was necessary. In my opinion, that was the first caution you gave out for dissent (you had already warned him, he carried on, fair enough). However, if players were persistently infringing why didn't you ask their manager to take them off? Also, in order for it to be persistent infringement, doesn't it have to be two or three of the SAME offences? As for the final caution, sometimes you just have to be a bit thicker skinned. At the end of the day, the games finished, you've done your job, if an 11 year old wants to play the big man then just ignore him. Why does it matter to you in the slightest what an 11 year old thinks?
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Because it isn't our place as referees to tell a manager how to run his team. If he hasn't got the sense to see when a player is pushing their luck then tough.
Bad idea and bad habit to get into.

Not sure I would have cautioned at u11s for PI after just 3 incidents, however without knowing what was said warnings for dissent....the caution for the blind comment is spot on.

Can I ask what you were going to dismiss the player for?
 
@hattersfan At the end of the day, if I'm not going to apply any sanctions, I'm just leaving future referees wide open to bad conduct because they feel as though it's acceptable.
 
They all sound deserved to me. Okay the age group usually means more leniency, but at the same time, if they are warned and ignore it, then you get the lemon regardless of age.

@hattersfan - persistent infringements does not have to be the same offence, or even the same player in some circumstances. If a player infringes the laws 3 times in quick succession surely he is asking for problems? As for the last offence, we weren't there, if Harry felt the caution was deserved for what was said, so be it. I am sure we have all had difficult games where we have walked off the pitch thinking "one more stupid comment and mr cards coming out to play..." Or is that just me....
 
Thanks @haywain - I've found that with this site! I suppose it's good in a way - lots of different opinions which just proves how diverse we all are in our opinions and leniency thresholds. I have a system when it comes to players: Warning, Warning, Yellow, Warning, Red - if it's U11 I will change it so there's two final warnings before the red comes out. @Supermonkey I think all of us have had those games, and I've only had 2! The way he said it, there was real intent in his voice, but I felt the yellow was suitable because of the hilarity of the situation. A kid who is 6 years younger than me issuing a threat. Pfft.
 
Harry, this is what you're supposed to be able to do. As long as you're doing this, you're doing fine. Players, managers and spectators rarely know what it is you're trying to achieve, even if you are the best communicator in the world and spend ages explaining to them.
  • Carry out pre-match responsibilities by being seen to inspect the field of play and players’ equipment prior to the game
  • Know when and how to start, stop or restart the game according to Law
  • Differentiate between penal and technical offences as demonstrated by appropriate restarts and signals
  • Recognise when to take disciplinary action, sending off, cautioning or dealing with misconduct according to the offence
  • Deal with players guilty of dissent so that they do not undermine the Referee’s performance
  • Display an appropriate involvement according to the level of the game, including a willingness to make decisions and to control situations
  • Demonstrate an empathy with the game by communicating with the players and taking into account their skill levels
  • Keep play in view at all times
  • Display a commitment and willingness to be involved in the game
  • Keep in touch by moving around the field of play
  • Move towards the location of an offence
  • Make use of time when play has stopped to take up position for the next phase of the game
  • Display concentration and awareness within open play
  • Ensure that the game is restarted correctly and without undue delay
  • Manage injury situations without getting too involved in the treatment of the injury
  • Be aware of substitution requests and ensure that any changeover takes place promptly and within the terms of the Law
  • Make audible use of the whistle to start, stop and restart the game
  • Use appropriate signals to indicate ownership of the next phase of play
  • Make use of referee signals set out in the Laws of the Game, such as advantage, indirect free kick or use of red or yellow cards
  • Encourage provision of Assistant Referees attached to clubs as per competition rules
  • Be seen to provide pre-match instructions to obtain support and assistance
  • Make good use of Club Assistants by acknowledging signals and by being seen or heard to communicate with them during the match
  • Respect involvement of Club Assistants by thanking them after the game
  • Recognise clear opportunities for allowing advantage
  • Communicate when advantage is being played through use of arm and voice
  • Don't give up
 
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