'MINE , LEAVE IT '

[Joshref]

Ok - I get it … it’s much better and superior refereeing to rigidly apply the LOTG (apart from Prem … special dispensation because they are high-profile … every week there is diregard for “playing by the book” - I’m sure nobody can possibly argue that).

So if we are SO “rigid” why do some refs allow the C word (both versions) and some don’t - forgot context - surely a word is word is word if you are rigidly applying LOTG - after all what can be worse than being called a cheat or a c**t - there is no excusable context IMHO

Secondly - if we are playing with CONTEXT - take the scenario - U12 team A has half-dozen shouts of LEAVE IT … we ignore, doesn’t happen, even though the ignorant parent supporters “think” it’s an offence … we plough on …

Now the tables are turned … team B is 1-0 up (it’s a cup final in the last minute); team A forward is distracted by the self-same leave it shout from team B - we blow the whistle - keeper made the shout / second YC - keeper gone - now it’s IDFK/pen “, no keeper and it’s all kicking off on the touchline “ref all the game they’ve been shouting LEAVE IT” - we do it once - bloody joke”

Now of course we know we are right because we follow the LOTG rigidly - we didn’t bother with a stepped approach (watch the leave it calls lads, if you must give your mate a call, shove a name on it - ITS A MYTH!), because in context all the other leave it’s were not an offence ….so we gave ourselves a problem but hey that’s ok because we played to the LOTG and not the spirit …

I consider myself amongst the more relaxed on here when it comes to strict application of LOTG, especially in the context of youth football, but I highly disagree with you here.

“Mine” and “Leave It” are not offences, you can’t just make up that they are because it makes life easier. It is a myth, perpetuated by refs who keep doing it. The only way you can penalise for it is under verbal distraction and that’s a mandatory caution. A yellow card to U12s for saying Leave it seems incredibly harsh to me.

And if parents, kids or coaches think I’m wrong for it, well so be it. I’ve had coaches screaming at me “how can it be offside the keeper touched it last” after I disallowed a goal when a player was stood offside and the shot was saved and fell to him. The parents were shouting “keep going kids, you know it’s really 2-1” (no Carol it’s 1-1 I just disallowed the ****ing goal) and the kids were throwing a strop. I was stood there in my purple shirt meant to stop abuse thinking I couldn’t give a ****. I don’t care who wins this game. If they‘re ignorant it’s their choice.

In the other examples you mentioned, these don’t involve making up a law. These are different interpretations. We have a local ref, old guy named Arnie (hope you’re not on the forums) who seems to ref to his own LOTG. It’s the LOTG that’s “expected” and is very old school. It’s not appropriate for junior football and it causes him more problems. This is one of the things he insists on that irritates me. Don’t ref to your own laws. Ref to the spirit I completely agree but don’t ref to your own laws

 

[JamesL]

that says nothing and everything- if you are going to ignore then by definition you are making up your own rules … cake and eat it mate … not possible …

I totally disagree.
It's not about being rigid with laws as you put earlier in thread, law 5 - decisions made are in the opinion of the referee  within the framework of the laws. Penalising a player for not putting a name on it is not within the framework of the laws.
If you choose to be flexible on some laws, or not apply them as rigidly, that is a long long way from enforcing laws that dont exist and have never existed.

 

[lesbobly]

You are totally missing my point and making up your own point - and you guys talk about not making things up - it’s beyond belief / try reading AND understanding my understanding response

I hope you referee with more vision than you are showing here … thanks for your time anyway … it’s been fun, if not educational -

I totally disagree.
It's not about being rigid with laws as you put earlier in thread, law 5 - decisions made are in the opinion of the referee  within the framework of the laws. Penalising a player for not putting a name on it is not within the framework of the laws.
If you choose to be flexible on some laws, or not apply them as rigidly, that is a long long way from enforcing laws that dont exist and have never existed.

 

[JamesL]

You are totally missing my point and making up your own point - and you guys talk about not making things up - it’s beyond belief / try reading AND understanding my understanding response

I hope you referee with more vision than you are showing here … thanks for your time anyway … it’s been fun, if not educational -

My vision will be fine so long as you aren't last week's ref, that's for sure

 

[RustyRef]

You are totally missing my point and making up your own point - and you guys talk about not making things up - it’s beyond belief / try reading AND understanding my understanding response

I hope you referee with more vision than you are showing here … thanks for your time anyway … it’s been fun, if not educational -

OK, let's put it another way, can you quote the relevant part of law that allows you to penalise a player shouting "leave it" without cautioning? As if you can't you are very obviously wrong here.

That is very different to referees not implementing things that are written in law, but you can't make your own laws up to suit your own beliefs.

 

[Joshref]

You are totally missing my point and making up your own point - and you guys talk about not making things up - it’s beyond belief / try reading AND understanding my understanding response

I actually agree with you in the idea of refereeing in the spirit of the game and taking younger age into account. But I would feel harsh punishing a 12 year old when they didn’t actually commit an offence because they had been taught it’s an offence by refs, coaches and players who don’t understand.

Try not to take the advice of people on this forum as judgemental by the way, I can assure you I’m not being. I’m only 19, I have no experience and no care to judge anyone brave enough to take to the pitch with the whistle. I don’t think the Vast majority on here are judgemental either although it comes across as that sometimes I think due to the Internet.

The point is you are incorrect to caution here, it would be extremely harsh, you would be penalising it under a law that doesn’t exist. This isn’t a case of subjectivity I.e. what a ref determines to be OFFINABUS, this is an objective fact.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

I have joined this exchange late as I was on duty as an observer last evening.
Question for @lesbobly please.
Cross from the wing, attacker poised to head into goal, goalkeeper shouts "Keeper's" and catches the ball cleanly.
What action do you recommend, please?

 

[markref]

Ok - I get it … it’s much better and superior refereeing to rigidly apply the LOTG

No one is saying it's "better and superior refereeing" to apply the LOTG rigidly. What we are saying is that what you are doing isn't supported by Law and it causes problems for people who do apply the law correctly.

If the same teams are playing the week after you have them and the same thing happens when the referee is being observed this could mess up his promotion. If he deals with it the same way you do then he gets marked down by the observer. If he does it the way the LOTG says then the players get on at him, because you said it has to be done another way. This could then cause him other problems with match control.
It's not that he can't handle this - but why should he have to? He's being penalised for applying the law correctly because you've told his teams he's wrong. He's then got to explain that he's right

When I have a player shouting "leave it!" I get players telling me he can't say that, so I make a point of explaining why this isn't right, and conversely if I caution a player I explain why he can't do what he has done. What he's doing is cheating and I find that players are annoyed if an opponent shouts "leave it" but they're much more annoyed if he shouts the same and it actually puts them off. I don't usually have to explain to the same team twice.

If you want to tell players to give a name to a team mate when asking for the ball then that's great. What you can't do in law is to penalise them if they don't do so. You also can't penalise a player if he shouts "leave it" and it doesn't distract an opponent. If he shouts this and it distracts an opponent then you penalise it. And if you do then it's wrong to give a free kick without a caution for unsporting behaviour.

 

[Macca]

Funnily enough - following this thread, and in a u14 game last night, defender roars just as attacker takes shot which is subsequently saved. I couldn't tell which of 2 players it was, so all I could do was award the IDF and say that because I couldn't tell who it was, I couldn't issue the caution, and if I knew, they would get a card.
Don't think there was much more I could do.

 

[Max2]

Funnily enough - following this thread, and in a u14 game last night, defender roars just as attacker takes shot which is subsequently saved. I couldn't tell which of 2 players it was, so all I could do was award the IDF and say that because I couldn't tell who it was, I couldn't issue the caution, and if I knew, they would get a card.
Don't think there was much more I could do.

Pick on one of them

 

[JamesL]

Pick on one of them

Or the old trick of shouting "player, come here" and then duly presenting themselves to you

 

[PinnerPaul]

I had a club assistant who, when I said pre-game, can we have a quick chat (as I handed over flag) - “what do I need to talk about, I know it all mate” … so I asked him which position he was going to take to start the game … he reluctantly put his head down and pretended to listen … and throughout the match proceeded to prove that he didn’t know it all … in fact very little …

I've had similar from a (friendly) CAR. Looked surprised/disappointed when I said that I would call any 'foul' throws.

So I put both my feet straddling the line and said "Is that OK?" , "Oh no" he replied.

"That's why I'm looking after the throws"!