mikedn
Referee/Mentor
Not even on the same wavelength as cannabis, so it would not be a problem
Players smoking Cannabis
- Thread starter JamesL
- Start date
My point is what people do outside of the white lines before they enter the field is not my worry (unless they are being abusive or violent). Smoking or drinking, then I might suggest to the manager that they are not in a fit state to play. If they do join the game, they won't stay long. They'll always make a mistake that costs them a caution and then another and then it's time for them to go.
The referee is entitled to do near-enough anything if player safety is at risk IMO. If a substitute is intoxicated (on alcohol, drugs, whatever) to the point you reasonably think he's going to be dangerous to have on the pitch, I think you'd be right to deny the substitution. And if you did that, you'd then be obliged to report it to county.
Having said that, I don't necessarily think the OP had any right to action at all in the situation he described. If he can't identify an actual substitute smoking anything and can't later identify inebriation, I don't think he has grounds to deny the substitute. And if they're not in a bad enough state that it affects anyone's safety, a (non-police!) referee has no more rights than an average person - you can't confiscate anything, the LOTG don't allow you to send anyone away for those reasons and you'd cause uproar (and be wrong in law) if you tried to abandon the match just because you thought you smelt something.
An "informal report" is an interesting idea, but aside from that, you have to let it go unless you're denying a player permission to enter the FOP as a result of intoxication.
Having said that, I don't necessarily think the OP had any right to action at all in the situation he described. If he can't identify an actual substitute smoking anything and can't later identify inebriation, I don't think he has grounds to deny the substitute. And if they're not in a bad enough state that it affects anyone's safety, a (non-police!) referee has no more rights than an average person - you can't confiscate anything, the LOTG don't allow you to send anyone away for those reasons and you'd cause uproar (and be wrong in law) if you tried to abandon the match just because you thought you smelt something.
An "informal report" is an interesting idea, but aside from that, you have to let it go unless you're denying a player permission to enter the FOP as a result of intoxication.
richard ramjane
RefChat Addict
On Saturday I had a situation with a player, who was fine in the first half, and then in the second... he started behaving oddly.
singing, dancing at one point, and at a corner he was just running round in circles around the keeper.... and was overly chatty... the list goes on....
nothing he was doing was "illegal" in any way, but he wasnt winning too many friends, either from the opposition or his own team.
I called both the player over and the captain and said that whilst i love it when players are clearly enjoying themselves, he'd have to tone it down.
Other players (including the captain) were getting wound up by his behaviour and as we all know, players in that state tend to take things out on each other in a physical manner... so whilst he wasnt actually contravening any laws, his actions could lead to someone getting hurt (and to be honest i think it would have been him as the target!)
use of some kind of substance did cross my mind, but unlike the OP i had no evidence of that aside from his behaviour. I couldnt declare him unfit to play as he was just in high spirits, and like i say, he wasnt breaking any laws in the eyes of football so i couldnt send him off . Also they didnt have a sub so i couldnt suggest that route out either. Fortunately he got the message and piped down for the rest of the game, but, had he not... what course of action could i have taken, if any at all ?
singing, dancing at one point, and at a corner he was just running round in circles around the keeper.... and was overly chatty... the list goes on....
nothing he was doing was "illegal" in any way, but he wasnt winning too many friends, either from the opposition or his own team.
I called both the player over and the captain and said that whilst i love it when players are clearly enjoying themselves, he'd have to tone it down.
Other players (including the captain) were getting wound up by his behaviour and as we all know, players in that state tend to take things out on each other in a physical manner... so whilst he wasnt actually contravening any laws, his actions could lead to someone getting hurt (and to be honest i think it would have been him as the target!)
use of some kind of substance did cross my mind, but unlike the OP i had no evidence of that aside from his behaviour. I couldnt declare him unfit to play as he was just in high spirits, and like i say, he wasnt breaking any laws in the eyes of football so i couldnt send him off . Also they didnt have a sub so i couldnt suggest that route out either. Fortunately he got the message and piped down for the rest of the game, but, had he not... what course of action could i have taken, if any at all ?
mikedn
Referee/Mentor
Difficult one this.... especially as there is no proof of substance abuse.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Yeah that's.....well sometimes all you can do is grit your teeth and hope things don't get any worse.
Running around the keeper could be taken as antagonistic and cautionable if you're feeling like you need to find an excuse for a card.
Bear in mind there could be other things at play too - he may well be bipolar and having a manic episode. Doesn't necessarily put him at risk, but it's worth considering.
The opposing team may just have to deal with it if he's just being a bit annoying.
You'd want to look out for retaliation and off-the-ball stuff though.
Running around the keeper could be taken as antagonistic and cautionable if you're feeling like you need to find an excuse for a card.
Bear in mind there could be other things at play too - he may well be bipolar and having a manic episode. Doesn't necessarily put him at risk, but it's worth considering.
The opposing team may just have to deal with it if he's just being a bit annoying.
You'd want to look out for retaliation and off-the-ball stuff though.
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richard ramjane
RefChat Addict
yup absolutely, but it was the captain's reaction when i called them both over that made me think contrary to the bipolar (or similar) situation...
he was angry with his player and said to me , "he's being a d***head, and he just wont listen to me"
and yes, also agree with your last point too, annoying as he was i certainly wouldnt want to see him get hurt.
Really tough one,
I would add that you can do something about it if you think its happening amongst fans, it is the home teams responsibility to manage the crowd both home and away supporters. Easier if its home team offending. Go over to manager and quite simply say he needs to get the situation sorted out as I am not stupid and I can smell quite strongly what is going on. give him a few minutes to sort out any offenders if not sorted let him know the game will not carry on with them so close to the pitch as second hand could affect a club assistant etc (this has happend to player during a game I was playing in as he played left wing next to where subs and fans were smoking he had to come off at half time as he was feeling rather unwell).
I have done this before on a couple of occasions on a sunday morning and the home manager has always been pretty helpful as they dont want the trouble from the county FA and also we as a league (I'm a ref sec) will look at punishment through our rules, usually under bringing the game into disrepute if the FA allow us to put a charge on top of theirs.
I do believe there is something in the player code of conduct which says they must not play under the influence of drugs and alcohol, not sure what it says about us stopping them entering FOP as a sub or player.
I would add that you can do something about it if you think its happening amongst fans, it is the home teams responsibility to manage the crowd both home and away supporters. Easier if its home team offending. Go over to manager and quite simply say he needs to get the situation sorted out as I am not stupid and I can smell quite strongly what is going on. give him a few minutes to sort out any offenders if not sorted let him know the game will not carry on with them so close to the pitch as second hand could affect a club assistant etc (this has happend to player during a game I was playing in as he played left wing next to where subs and fans were smoking he had to come off at half time as he was feeling rather unwell).
I have done this before on a couple of occasions on a sunday morning and the home manager has always been pretty helpful as they dont want the trouble from the county FA and also we as a league (I'm a ref sec) will look at punishment through our rules, usually under bringing the game into disrepute if the FA allow us to put a charge on top of theirs.
I do believe there is something in the player code of conduct which says they must not play under the influence of drugs and alcohol, not sure what it says about us stopping them entering FOP as a sub or player.
Go over to the subs bench and vomit on their kitbag. Tell them that cannabis has a very violent effect on you. They'll root out the culprit for you.
I don't like being near drugs or illegal activity. if i strongly suspect people are smoking marijuana near my fop (ie i can smell them smoking it) i may abandon the game.
trying to provide a link between alcohol and marijauna in my humble opinion is creating a false equivalence. One of them is illegal
trying to provide a link between alcohol and marijauna in my humble opinion is creating a false equivalence. One of them is illegal
my safety and welfare is definitely my remit.
Sure is, but where's the threat to either over and above the risks you face trying to control 22 players on the FOP
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Is illegal behaviour our concern? Sounds like it's the concern of the grounds official.
On what basis would you be abandoning?
I don't like being around drugs and illegal activity.
If there is illegal activity going on I won't be on the right frame of mind to referee the game.
That's a pretty weak justification to be honest, and I think if you try and abandon matches because of that, you'll soon find yourself not being invited to referee matches again for a while. What if you spot a player speeding into the car park? Or a spectator walking past starts littering or doesn't clear up after their dog? Are you suggesting that illegal activity is OK?
I see you referee for the army, and I don't honestly know if that gives you any extra obligations/powers in day-to-day life or not. But as a civilian referee, my concern is player safety. I think you could stretch that to refusing a substitution if you can clearly see the player isn't in his right mind. I don't think that gives you the right to walk off the pitch based on a smell and expect to be considered correct.
let me correct myself. if it ongoing illegal activity like ganja smoking i will abandon the game. i may give them a chance to stop. but if it continues near me i.e. within the vicinity of the FOP then i will abandon
Thankfully its very rare for people to be smoking weed near football games
Blimey, never come and referee in London then or you'll be abandoning 50% of games.
Hi All, thanks for all your responses - An update:
As I suggested I reported it to the county FA for the club as an extraordinary and drew the leagues' attention to that report alongside standard match report.
I have since spoken to the county it was reported to and they've advised the correct course of action was taken and it will be investigated. As to what "it will be investigated" entails is another matter - whether they'll send a couple of observers to the next couple of games I don't know.
If it happens again I'll probably try harder to nail the culprit and prevent them taking further part in the game, alongside an extraordinary report.
Appreciate all the repsonses, and look forward to contributing myself in the future.
As I suggested I reported it to the county FA for the club as an extraordinary and drew the leagues' attention to that report alongside standard match report.
I have since spoken to the county it was reported to and they've advised the correct course of action was taken and it will be investigated. As to what "it will be investigated" entails is another matter - whether they'll send a couple of observers to the next couple of games I don't know.
If it happens again I'll probably try harder to nail the culprit and prevent them taking further part in the game, alongside an extraordinary report.
Appreciate all the repsonses, and look forward to contributing myself in the future.