The FA don't use criminal trials they base it on civil law so it is on the balance of probability so if they see one witness as more credible than another they can charge someone.
Junior/Youth Racist Comment by player
- Thread starter magpie1892
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Padfoot
The Persecuted One
So you will be reporting all instances where players inform you that you have been called something or punched etc?
Because If you don't, that in itself is discriminatory and flies in the face of the message the FA are trying to send.
Of course, we could just remove the hysteria, inject a large dose of common sense and simply just report what we see and hear ourselves?
If players want to report something that the referee neither saw nor heard, so can offer no useful evidence whatsoever, then let them do it without dragging referees into a pointless procedue.
I see what your saying in terms of the reporting of people saying he punched me etc. However my personal common sense approach is to report discrimination claims as this country still has problems with racism, homophobia, sexism etc within the game. Being a white person with an Asian heritage it is amazing what you here from players, coaches and officials about other cultures. This country still has big problems in general not just football with discrimination.
Players don't know where or how to report it, so the FA have said the referee is to report it and then they do the follow up work. Maybe its because I work in education, am a trained equality and safeguarding training officer, have been a Club Welfare Officer in different sports, a player, coach, club official and referee that I am expecting too much of referees. Too many times when I was a player for a christian team did I see referees turn blind eyes to blatant discrimination only 5/6 years ago and since becoming a ref 3 years ago I realised that they should have been dealing with it.
Maybe I should go back to refereeing rugby as what I hear and see within football at the moment is very disheartening from attacks on refs through to ignorant and arrogant refs (for example saw a game recently where a player came in and 2 footed someone, player reacted and stamped on person who committed challenge, club linesman shopped his own player for the stamp after the two footed challenge, ref did nothing but turn around to the club linesman after he said sir could I have a quick word about it to discuss his displeasure in a calm manner that the situation was not dealt with and he thought it may get out of hand. The ref said if you don't like how I am refereeing put the flag down and f**k off.)
Well if they make a complaint to you are duty bound to report it. You are officially the eyes and ears of the FA. If they do go on make a complaint about it to their CFA the first person they would contact would be you. you can pre-empt that by sending in a report
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Look at it from another angle.....
Player A comes to you and says that Player B called him a derogatory name....you saw and heard nothing.....you call Player B over and explain that they have been accused of being racist.....player B hotly denied it, calling player A a liar etc...you inform player B that you are reporting the incident but as you didn't hear it no further action will be taken in the match......
Imagine now how you will deal with the situation when 10 mins later player B approaches you claiming player A has punched him off the ball.....you saw and heard nothing......what credibility do you think you will have left after you've told him that you can't do anything because you didn't see it?
The solution is to better educate players and clubs as to how to report alleged incidents and leave referees out of hearsay complaints.
And I would say it is precisely because you work in education where staff are indoctrinated to find an ism wherever possible rather than just dealing with the real world.
Football attracts people from all walks of life, all colours, creeds and races....and with that all the prejudices and sensitivities that go with them. The referees job is facilitate a game of football in accordance with the LOTG and that means dealing with offences that you witness.....not to get embroiled in politically motivated tittle tattle.
If I hear or see racist offences on the pitch, they will get dealt with accordingly....i have no time or tolerance for such ridiculous prejudices.
Player A comes to you and says that Player B called him a derogatory name....you saw and heard nothing.....you call Player B over and explain that they have been accused of being racist.....player B hotly denied it, calling player A a liar etc...you inform player B that you are reporting the incident but as you didn't hear it no further action will be taken in the match......
Imagine now how you will deal with the situation when 10 mins later player B approaches you claiming player A has punched him off the ball.....you saw and heard nothing......what credibility do you think you will have left after you've told him that you can't do anything because you didn't see it?
The solution is to better educate players and clubs as to how to report alleged incidents and leave referees out of hearsay complaints.
And I would say it is precisely because you work in education where staff are indoctrinated to find an ism wherever possible rather than just dealing with the real world.
Football attracts people from all walks of life, all colours, creeds and races....and with that all the prejudices and sensitivities that go with them. The referees job is facilitate a game of football in accordance with the LOTG and that means dealing with offences that you witness.....not to get embroiled in politically motivated tittle tattle.
If I hear or see racist offences on the pitch, they will get dealt with accordingly....i have no time or tolerance for such ridiculous prejudices.
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
This method of dealing with "reports" opens a whole new world of possibility for the malicious player......once they realise it's possible to get an opponent charged merely on the strength of an unsupported allegation.....
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
I have to say, im with @Padfoot on this one...
I didn't see nor hear it, therefore I wont be dealing with it - especially if ive been told by the claimant 'I didn't say that' ... too much aggro, and if a phonecall does come in asking what happened ill simply tell them that I have no idea what they are on about!
I didn't see nor hear it, therefore I wont be dealing with it - especially if ive been told by the claimant 'I didn't say that' ... too much aggro, and if a phonecall does come in asking what happened ill simply tell them that I have no idea what they are on about!
One of my colleagues is on the Discrimination panel , and it seems to be the case that unless you get an admission from one party or another there is not much can really be done !
But I suppose the case in itself may be enough to make a person think twice in the future .
But I suppose the case in itself may be enough to make a person think twice in the future .
And this is why we still have a culture of discrimination as people are not willing to change the way they think or act! I am done with this conversation.
The real world is racist, sexist, ageist etc (equal pay for women still not here, people being refused jobs based on age still here, racism is still rife in this country) close your eyes and be ignorant to it if you want.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
@Steve Wiggins - you have turned an conversation from if it is worthwhile reporting it or not and turned it into people allowing sexism, racism, ageism etc. which is very wrong in my opinion.
but considering you brought it up, equal pay for women does exist ... women that aren't paid equal to men is because of their qualification or ability to do the job and not if they have a willy or a hoo ha!
ageism is also not around ... unfortunately some jobs are better suited to younger people than older and vice versa ... I for example work in the removal industry ... id rather take on a younger chap to undertake the physical aspect of moving - but in terms of driving the vehicles and lorries I would rather a slightly older chap ... that isn't ageism that is job effectiveness
but considering you brought it up, equal pay for women does exist ... women that aren't paid equal to men is because of their qualification or ability to do the job and not if they have a willy or a hoo ha!
ageism is also not around ... unfortunately some jobs are better suited to younger people than older and vice versa ... I for example work in the removal industry ... id rather take on a younger chap to undertake the physical aspect of moving - but in terms of driving the vehicles and lorries I would rather a slightly older chap ... that isn't ageism that is job effectiveness
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
and maybe you should take your own advise and take up rugby refereeing ...
judging by your damning opinion of football referees, not many people would try and stop you.
oh and one last thing ... you sound like the reason I got into refereeing - when I played i hated the referee that would walk onto the pitch as if he had been awarded the job of protecting the royal family ... or as I would call them, the guy that didn't pass police training. he would enforce every tiny particular point to the T ... they were the referees that sent me off on more than a few occasions!
I always wanted to be the referee that was spoken of well 'last weeks ref was actually alright, done a good job and was friendly'
get off of your high horse, darn it!
judging by your damning opinion of football referees, not many people would try and stop you.
oh and one last thing ... you sound like the reason I got into refereeing - when I played i hated the referee that would walk onto the pitch as if he had been awarded the job of protecting the royal family ... or as I would call them, the guy that didn't pass police training. he would enforce every tiny particular point to the T ... they were the referees that sent me off on more than a few occasions!
I always wanted to be the referee that was spoken of well 'last weeks ref was actually alright, done a good job and was friendly'
get off of your high horse, darn it!
Charlie, like you I'm also with Padfoot on this. Some years ago I submitted a report on an incident I had not witnessed but had been reported to me. At a disciplinary hearing I was asked what I had seen/heard and had to admit that I had not seen/heard anything. Case was then effectively dismissed for lack of evidence! Since then I don't report anything I have not directly seen or heard myself.
In this case I would be suggesting to the aggrieved party that it is their responsibility to make the report. However, I'd be making my own notes after the game as a reference should anything come of it.
nice one Charlie ...........! just making dinner I don't think you need to borrow my wooden spoon ?
Yeah spoke with her on the phone and she seems really good, Lucy was also really good so we are quite lucky as a County.
I forgot Lucy was in post previously. Very nice person and a good friend.
Don't really understand people not wanting to write a couple of lines just to say they didn't see/hear anything to cover their own back, just madness considering racist comments (if found guilty) could actually end up being reported to the police if the player felt the comment was serious enough.
Almost like saying not going to give any yellow/red cards because I can't be bothered to go on WGS to put them on.
Almost like saying not going to give any yellow/red cards because I can't be bothered to go on WGS to put them on.
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Nothing like it all.
At least with a caution or dismissal you have witnessed an offence and taken action.......unlike the racist comments where you have witnessed absolutely nothing and are making a report based on hearsay.
It is blatant double standards, and discriminatory, that you're reporting players based on hearsay merely because of the colour of someone's skin......you wouldn't caution or dismiss for something that you hadn't seen or heard.....so why submit a report merely because the allegation involves perceived racism?
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