Rare occurrence!!

[Will_A]

Had a game on Tuesday where I’d dropped down to the local junior league to help out as I was working locally.

Game generally went ok until a decision in the 2nd half led to 2 sin bins and a red to the away team manager.

As soon as the final whistle goes I’m confronted by the remaining coach and the manager has run back over from his car.

Nothing major but an extraordinary report put in about the red and another about post match conduct as I don’t want a new/young ref to be subjected to that in future.

A few days later I got the attached from the away side’s secretary! Rather unexpected and goes to show that sometimes, clubs can be positive after misconduct!

 

[es1]

Whoever he is, he's a good egg

 

[Josh the referee]

Had a game on Tuesday where I’d dropped down to the local junior league to help out as I was working locally.

Game generally went ok until a decision in the 2nd half led to 2 sin bins and a red to the away team manager.

As soon as the final whistle goes I’m confronted by the remaining coach and the manager has run back over from his car.

Nothing major but I extraordinary report put in about the red and another about post match conduct as I don’t want a new/young ref to be subjected to that in future.

A few days later I got the attached from the away side’s secretary! Rather unexpected and goes to show that sometimes, clubs can be positive after misconduct!View attachment 5675

Would you be willing to share what age group it was? Just out of my own interest

 

[Will_A]

Would you be willing to share what age group it was? Just out of my own interest

This was open age, just the grassroots ‘Junior’ league

 

[RyantheRef]

Had a game on Tuesday where I’d dropped down to the local junior league to help out as I was working locally.

Game generally went ok until a decision in the 2nd half led to 2 sin bins and a red to the away team manager.

As soon as the final whistle goes I’m confronted by the remaining coach and the manager has run back over from his car.

Nothing major but an extraordinary report put in about the red and another about post match conduct as I don’t want a new/young ref to be subjected to that in future.

A few days later I got the attached from the away side’s secretary! Rather unexpected and goes to show that sometimes, clubs can be positive after misconduct!View attachment 5675

First of all, that's an extraordinary letter that should be shared as widely as possible. The author of it should be praised highly.

Second of all, don't forget that for a technical official, entering the field of play, even after the game or at half time, to remonstrate with the referee is a sending off offense. Should you have, perhaps, issued red cards to each of the coaching staff members who entered the field and reported the manager who had been sent off already for extraordinary misconduct? I don't know that it matters; but it in terms of being technically correct, I think maybe you should have.

And this is a common problem for me too. This weekend, I also "dropped down" to do a game and had to issue two red cards after I gave a penalty that was a knocked on pen. Secondary action with the trailing leg took out the striker's standing foot. When I explained it to the players, the response I got was "she can't be in control of her other leg when she's going to ground!" Excuse me? After that, a player decided to take it on herself to push the fouled striker which earned her a caution. She then, and I'm not joking, walked twenty yards away to another player and pushed her. So I issued a second caution. Once the match was over, a player for that team decided to call me a "f*cking idiot" for which she got a red card. Her reaction was that I couldn't send her off because the match had already ended. So if anyone has any advice for how to deal with lower levels of play than one usually officiates, I'm all ears.

 

[santa sangria]

Would love to see this on e.g. FB grassroots footy page and referee abroad, Dutch Referee Blog etc.

It’s a classic

 

[Will_A]

Second of all, don't forget that for a technical official, entering the field of play, even after the game or at half time, to remonstrate with the referee is a sending off offense. Should you have, perhaps, issued red cards to each of the coaching staff members who entered the field and reported the manager who had been sent off already for extraordinary misconduct?

Very difficult to do on the day as the coach had to walk across the pitch to get to their changing room, I habitually wait around the halfway line until all have left the pitch to make sure nothing is missed.

Whilst they approached me to questions decisions, there wasn’t anything that really justified a card in my opinion. Had they not walked away when I suggested they did so then it’d have been a different story.

The main misconduct related to the managers conduct that lead to the red card.

 

[RyantheRef]

Very difficult to do on the day as the coach had to walk across the pitch to get to their changing room, I habitually wait around the halfway line until all have left the pitch to make sure nothing is missed.

Whilst they approached me to questions decisions, there wasn’t anything that really justified a card in my opinion. Had they not walked away when I suggested they did so then it’d have been a different story.

The main misconduct related to the managers conduct that lead to the red card.

I think you're missing the point. The sheer act of entering the field of play and questioning or remonstrating with an official is worthy of a red card. They don't have to use foul or abusive language, they don't have to be vocal and public. They just have to enter the field of play and remonstrate. Give them one warning "not here, not now" and then show the red card.

 

[Will_A]

I think you're missing the point. The sheer act of entering the field of play and questioning or remonstrating with an official is worthy of a red card. They don't have to use foul or abusive language, they don't have to be vocal and public. They just have to enter the field of play and remonstrate. Give them one warning "not here, not now" and then show the red card.

You may have missed my point that they physically couldn’t get to their changing rooms without entering the field of play.
Yes they asked a few questions on their walk but nothing worthy of a red card.

 

[Russell Jones]

You may have missed my point that they physically couldn’t get to their changing rooms without entering the field of play.
Yes they asked a few questions on their walk but nothing worthy of a red card.

On a general level, both you & @RyantheRef make valid points. We do need to be fully aware that, in the LOTG, team officials 'confronting' the referee on the FOP at HT or FT is a red card offence. For me, in most circumstances, my tolerance level will be lower at HT, when there is typically (though not in this case!) less reason for managers to be on the pitch / in the vicinity of the referee .. whereas at FT it is accepted practice for them to come on, shake hands etc.

Much like with player dissent, we need to decide at what point the frustrations tip over into a sanctionable offence. Will decided they did not do so on this occasion which is his prerogative. At lot depends on the body language of the manager involved, as this is the thing most likely to tip the balance from conversational disagreement to obvious 'confrontation'.

 

[RyantheRef]

I understand what you're both saying, but I'm not sure that it's germane to the question. The issue is not whether their behavior exceeded a certain standard of acceptability; the issue is whether they were (a) on the field of play and (b) remonstrating with an official. This is not an area wherein there need be any consideration of public, personal, or persistent. This need not be dissent. This need not be offensive, abusive, or insulting. They simply need to be on the field of play and remonstrating.

 

[Will_A]

I understand what you're both saying, but I'm not sure that it's germane to the question. The issue is not whether their behavior exceeded a certain standard of acceptability; the issue is whether they were (a) on the field of play and (b) remonstrating with an official. This is not an area wherein there need be any consideration of public, personal, or persistent. This need not be dissent. This need not be offensive, abusive, or insulting. They simply need to be on the field of play and remonstrating.

You crack on with your red cards at full time for a manager/coach questioning some decisions on their way to their changing rooms.

I’ll stick with the common sense approach/human approach and entertain some questions provided the line isn’t crossed.

 

[JamesL]

You crack on with your red cards at full time for a manager/coach questioning some decisions on their way to their changing rooms.

I’ll stick with the common sense approach/human approach and entertain some questions provided the line isn’t crossed.

There is obviously a clear difference between asking a question, and remonstrating.
So you aren't wrong in what you have posted there.
I think it was use of the word confronted that has sent @RyantheRef towards the sending off offences listed in law 12.
Obviously matey shouldn't have been anywhere near you as he had been sent off and rightly reported as such. If you felt no lines were crossed and it was a case of just questions seeking clarification then there isn't really any remonstration so no need for discipline.
Anyone on to just give them a piece of your mind then...

 

[Russell Jones]

I understand what you're both saying, but I'm not sure that it's germane to the question. The issue is not whether their behavior exceeded a certain standard of acceptability; the issue is whether they were (a) on the field of play and (b) remonstrating with an official. This is not an area wherein there need be any consideration of public, personal, or persistent. This need not be dissent. This need not be offensive, abusive, or insulting. They simply need to be on the field of play and remonstrating.

At the risk of being pedantic, the actual word mentioned in the LOTG is 'confront' rather than 'remonstrate'. The reason I mention the coach's body language is that it's a helpful way for the referee to decide whether the coach has actually "confronted" them on the FOP (as opposed to eg politely asking a question). Especially at higher levels, the coach's body language is also a helpful factor in 'selling' the red card to all other participants & spectators.

 

[RyantheRef]

At the risk of being pedantic, the actual word mentioned in the LOTG is 'confront' rather than 'remonstrate'. The reason I mention the coach's body language is that it's a helpful way for the referee to decide whether the coach has actually "confronted" them on the FOP (as opposed to eg politely asking a question). Especially at higher levels, the coach's body language is also a helpful factor in 'selling' the red card to all other participants & spectators.

Well, confront was the exact word used in the OP to describe what the remaining coach did after he had entered the field of play so there you go.

 

[Will_A]

Thanks for turning a really positive post into a petty dispute over terminology.

 

[Bombedcoma]

At the risk of being pedantic, the actual word mentioned in the LOTG is 'confront' rather than 'remonstrate'. The reason I mention the coach's body language is that it's a helpful way for the referee to decide whether the coach has actually "confronted" them on the FOP (as opposed to eg politely asking a question). Especially at higher levels, the coach's body language is also a helpful factor in 'selling' the red card to all other participants & spectators.

I have yet to attend an appeal hearing however this could be an important recognition. If someone knows the laws and reads a report in detail then I feel the words you use could have an affect on you. 'The coach entered to speak to me' is different to the coach 'confronted me'. Be precise.

 

[Anubis]

I have yet to attend an appeal hearing however this could be an important recognition. If someone knows the laws and reads a report in detail then I feel the words you use could have an affect on you. 'The coach entered to speak to me' is different to the coach 'confronted me'. Be precise.

You would not surely be reporting a coach who entered to speak to me...
There is no offence and nothing to sanction, so, nothing to report.

of course if that speaking to then escalted, you have to be more accurate

 

[QuaverRef]

If I red carded every manager which asked me a question after the game on the FOP, the Somerset FA would all be sat on a golden throne. Common sense has to apply

 

[Russell Jones]

I have yet to attend an appeal hearing however this could be an important recognition. If someone knows the laws and reads a report in detail then I feel the words you use could have an affect on you. 'The coach entered to speak to me' is different to the coach 'confronted me'. Be precise.

Firstly, @Will_A , apologies that the thread deviated from your original intention. You're completely right that it is both unusual and heartening to receive that kind of an e mail from a club

That said, as @Bombedcoma mentions, using the correct terminology is always important and sometimes vital. Especially at L4 and above, it's easy to dig yourself into a big hole with observers, the FA and even (increasingly) with managers and club officials if you describe an incident inaccurately or using non LOTG terminology. Simple stuff like replacing 'bad/late' tackle with 'reckless' tackle. Or going with, 'I dismissed the player for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity' rather than saying 'he was the last man'. And, in this case, 'I chose not to sanction the team officials because their behaviour was not confrontational'.

With promotion / reclassification margins so tight, one mis chosen phrase in an observer debrief or post match chat with a club secretary could make all the difference come season end ....